Britcliffe Monthly

[g jones]

Is anyone else thinking what I am thinking. Just read the Observer wardens story and Cllr Britcliffe has announced funding for 15 PCSO's the day he sacked the wardens.

Didn't he maintain all along that no funding could be found for the wardens and it was the governments fault?

The Government has just announced a huge increase in PCSO's numbers (who have no powers as yet). Why do we need any more payed for by Council Tax payers? Don't we pay Council Tax to the Council to pay for Council functions?

[tomz]

Who knows....

[glasgow guy]

I think that you'll find that pcso's do have power....

read on and learn a bit about them.....
http://www.policecommunitysupportoff...BB2/powers.php - there are quite a few laws on there applicable to pcso's that are not applicable to street wardens..

and the pcso's have nothing to do with the council as they are controlled by (in this case) lancashire constabulary..they are also paid by them and the training is also by the police which is why they have more power than the street wardens which will soon be defunct...

[g jones]

Originally Posted by glasgow guy

I think that you'll find that pcso's do have power....

read on and learn a bit about them.....
http://www.policecommunitysupportoff...BB2/powers.php - there are quite a few laws on there applicable to pcso's that are not applicable to street wardens..

and the pcso's have nothing to do with the council as they are controlled by (in this case) lancashire constabulary..they are also paid by them and the training is also by the police which is why they have more power than the street wardens which will soon be defunct...

Police community support officers (PCSOs) can be designated with the power to require the name and address of a person who they think has committed a relevant offence under paragraph 2 of Part 1, Schedule 4, Police Reform Act 2002 (PRA).

Chief officers also have discretion over which of the powers in Part 1 of Schedule 4 they want to bestow on their PCSOs. (same PRA powers as wardens have)

In order to reduce training requirements and ensure PCSOs’ efforts are focused on their core business, it is likely that only those powers necessary to meet the envisaged deployment will be bestowed. There is nothing in the legislation preventing PCSOs in the same force having different powers according to local needs (e.g. detention powers in one Division but not in another, as in the MET's Lambeth).

These powers listed on the above link seem identical to wardens powers so it may be PCSO's could have them but don't locally. Obviously the question then is who do you want to set policy. The Council and Area Councils with wardens, or the Council hand over descretion to the Police on what powers they think or can afford to bestow.

The police recently informed the councils scrutiny function that PCSO's have no powers and our local PCSO says he has no powers her in Hyndburn.

http://www.together.gov.uk/article.asp?aid=3481

[Neil]

Originally Posted by g jones

Is anyone else thinking what I am thinking.

In answer to that question Graham, no obviously I am not. I am thinking, good they managed to find the money. I am also wondering if this is a joint project with the Police and that is why funding was found. Maybe if you could ask Peter a couple of questions on the subject for us you could inform us why PCSO's and not Wardens. Although I suspect you know more than your letting on and are just trying to lead us to think your way.

By the way, I found the wardens an invaluble service to Hyndburn and am very sorry to see them go. I know a couple of them are members on here. I would just like to thank them for all the excellent work they did for Hyndburn and wish them well in the future. I also think that our Council was not fully aware of what the Wardens were doing for our Community, if they had been, I suspect they may still be here.

[Gayle]

I think the PCSOs that funding is being 'found' for are the very same ones that central Government has pledged to each and every area in the UK. This is not something that is coming out of the Hyndburn Borough Council budget - see Greg's post on this in an earlier thread. Hyndburn will probably benefit from around an additional 30 PCSOs from this pot.

So, looks to me quite simple - it's no longer an 'either or' situation - you don't have to choose between Conservative's 6 PCSOs and Labour's 24 Community Wardens - YOU CAN HAVE THE LOT!

If you vote Labour on May 4th you'll get your 24 Community Wardens back like we promised PLUS you'll still get the 30 PCSOs pledged from Government.

[Madhatter]

I saw a female pcso stop a youth on a bike in the pedestrian area the day I was up, she told him to get off but he refused, She took his details despite all his mates telling him to walk away.

[Tealeaf]

Gayle is right on this one and someone needs to pull Britcliffe up PDQ; PCSO's are an integral part of the police service. This is provided, in the case of Hyndburn, by the County and other than a minor consultative role, the borough has no say in operational police matters. Funding for the additional PCSO's comes from a combination of Whitehall and County, (taxes & rates) but has now't to do with Hyndburn. Once again, this clown of a council leader is claiming credit where no credit is due.

Graham is also right in stating that PCSO's have varying powers depending on the policy of the local force. When I leave my office here in London to get the bus back to my flat, I pass through the jurisdiction of three police forces within a walk of 500 yards- Met, City & BTP; the first appears to have a PCSO uniform of no more than that of a traffic warden with a reflective vest; the City PCSOs go further, wearing a stab-proof vest. Other than asking them for the time or directions though, both appear to do little.

However, the BTP PCSOs are fully tooled up with cuffs and sticks. I have seen them on several occaisions getting well stuck in and cracking heads alongside their warranted colleagues.
.

Some consistency on PCSO powers needs to be applied and I don't particularly care what title people have - constable, pcso or warden. The thing that matters is that we have boots on the street who are there to assist and when neccessary to arrest. It just seems a shame that some of the hyndburn ex-wardens are not given priority for the new PCSO positions.

[tomz]

[g jones]

Originally Posted by Neil

Although I suspect you know more than your letting on and are just trying to lead us to think your way.

Hi Neil,

The words you have typed above are words Peter has used several times about me. Not been sharing notes or LOGIN's have you?

I think you're right in suggesting it's part funding by the Council. The six PCSO's agreed are part funded by HBC (£67,000?) and the Police (??). I guess half the cost.

That was all before Gordon Browns budget annoucement of 10,000 extra PCSO's.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by g jones

The words you have typed above are words Peter has used several times about me. Not been sharing notes or LOGIN's have you?

Are you accusing me of thinking like Peter? I could easily take offence at that, I could never be that sneaky

[g jones]

Originally Posted by Tealeaf

Gayle is right on this one and someone needs to pull Britcliffe up PDQ; PCSO's are an integral part of the police service. This is provided, in the case of Hyndburn, by the County and other than a minor consultative role, the borough has no say in operational police matters. Funding for the additional PCSO's comes from a combination of Whitehall and County, (taxes & rates) but has now't to do with Hyndburn. Once again, this clown of a council leader is claiming credit where no credit is due.

Graham is also right in stating that PCSO's have varying powers depending on the policy of the local force. When I leave my office here in London to get the bus back to my flat, I pass through the jurisdiction of three police forces within a walk of 500 yards- Met, City & BTP; the first appears to have a PCSO uniform of no more than that of a traffic warden with a reflective vest; the City PCSOs go further, wearing a stab-proof vest. Other than asking them for the time or directions though, both appear to do little.

However, the BTP PCSOs are fully tooled up with cuffs and sticks. I have seen them on several occaisions getting well stuck in and cracking heads alongside their warranted colleagues.
.

Some consistency on PCSO powers needs to be applied and I don't particularly care what title people have - constable, pcso or warden. The thing that matters is that we have boots on the street who are there to assist and when neccessary to arrest. It just seems a shame that some of the hyndburn ex-wardens are not given priority for the new PCSO positions.

I think there are some very good points here Tealeaf. It seems that both PCSO's and Wardens get the same powers, training permitted. The wardens were trained to do most/nearly all of the PRA 2002 Schedule 4 powers. Are we retraining the newly recruited PCSO's? Why did Peter say the Council was providing 15 PCSO's in the OB. Surely thats 6 still part funded and 9 wholly by the government?

I agree, boots on the streets, answerable to local people is what we need. When Peter ditched the wardens what importance was boots on the streets then as it was suggested to cut the bloated Area Council bureacracy which would pay for 12. Peter rejected this.

[g jones]

Originally Posted by Neil

Are you accusing me of thinking like Peter? I could easily take offence at that, I could never be that sneaky

would i do that?

[Neil]

Originally Posted by g jones

it was suggested to cut the bloated Area Council bureacracy which would pay for 12.

If Labour take control of HBC in May, will you be removing the Area Councils totally as has been suggested? If so how do you intend to involve the local residents with local issues or is that not important to Labour?

[SPUGGIE J]

If Peter sneaks a peak at this he will get a chuckle at you 2.