Brown asks Voters to give Labour a second look

[g jones]

Originally Posted by jaysay

If that's the case why have Britcliffe's bunch been in control for 10 of the last 11 years, even with Labour having Gods gift to Hyndburn as their leader It took the people of Hyndburn two election to turn a 44 Labour 3 Conservative council into a Conservative Controlled council

In 2000 you 31 Labour had 16.
In 2007 you had 20 Labour 15
In 2010 you have 18 Labour 12

Voters are unsure but prefer a Conservative Council. That's providing you accept people do vote on local issues at local elections.

[Less]

Originally Posted by g jones

In 2000 you 31 Labour had 16.
In 2007 you had 20 Labour 15
In 2010 you have 18 Labour 12

Voters are unsure but prefer a Conservative Council. That's providing you accept people do vote on local issues at local elections.

Who got the rest?

Or have we shrunk?

Let's not get too bogged down in I'll issue these figures now you show me yours, Labour wants a second look from we, the Electorate, so far our tame Tory has offered nothing, instead of joining him in irrelevance prove your party worthwhile, we want somebody to lead us headless chickens & so far nothing!

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Less

Who got the rest?

Or have we shrunk?

Let's not get too bogged down in I'll issue these figures now you show me yours, Labour wants a second look from we, the Electorate, so far our tame Tory has offered nothing, instead of joining him in irrelevance prove your party worthwhile, we want somebody to lead us headless chickens & so far nothing!

The council was reduced in 2002 from 47 to 35 Less

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by g jones

In 2000 you 31 Labour had 16.
In 2007 you had 20 Labour 15
In 2010 you have 18 Labour 12

Voters are unsure but prefer a Conservative Council. That's providing you accept people do vote on local issues at local elections.

I've always thought people vote on local issues at local elections, and have never heard anything to change my mind

[Less]

Originally Posted by jaysay

The council was reduced in 2002 from 47 to 35 Less

Thank you,
erm' (could somebody confirm those figures, but do it quietly, I don't want him to know I'm double checking).

[Margaret Pilkington]

I'm not sure that the electorate do vote on local issues in Local elections.......I think that many just follow the political banner and vote for who they were brought up to believe in.
And in General elections I am fairly sure that the same people vote in a similar way, rather than thinking about who would deal with local issues in the best and most efficient way.
I think that many of the electorate have become apathetic about both local and National issues, because in the main, they feel that their voices are unheard....or if they are heard, then they are not listened to.

This apathy has been compounded by the very fact that so many politicians seem to live in another world......Like that buffoon Nicholas Winterton......they are so far removed from the real world being experienced by their constituents.

[g jones]

In Hyndburn we need to sort out welfare and employment issues, chronic housing/planning issues. We need to stop pandering to private sector because all it delivers is poorly built little shoe box communities, all on top of each other with no quality of life built in. Recreation, open space, community facilities. We need to promote community and end/reverse the Thatcherite 'there is no such thing as society'.

We need to use taxation to invest in transport, infrastructure and manufacturing/business (as opposed to cutting taxation for the south). The Todmorden curve. Making sure not just passenger network but that we are connected for rail freight.

Promote East Lancs as an industrial/manufacturing region as well as a attractive part of the country to visit or live. Keep investing heavily in education and training but rather than just younger people, we need to target everyone. Thatcher's devastation hasn't gone away and many 40 something pluses feel left behind.

We need to move away from individualism and consumerism.

We need to have a grass roots approach to decision making. As Tower Block of Commons shows, multi-millionaires business people and easy street university graduates, all molly coddled with little or no idea how real people live their lives.

We need a big change that accepts the wishes of local people/communities.

Free NHS. Let's bring back eye and dental care. Free higher education. Cancel Trident and invest the money in counter terrorism. Steady withdrawal from active front line combat. A cautious approach to NATO expansion (unlike Cameron). Stay out of the Euro. Start rebuilding Council Houses with shared equity, owner occupation and rental in proportion. Make private sector builders work with local communities on design and build.

Tough regulation against private sector residential letting (private landlords), delegated to residents/communities bypassing government and local government?

Tougher sentences. National Service as an early intervention within the criminal justice system.

Standards for all developments focusing on energy conservation/efficiency. Look to move from a national grid to local grids, local supplies of electricity/energy.

Promote unions on boards like in Germany and promote business models with collective ownership/co-operative ownership.

Free nursery care as part of work and employment welfare reform - a job for everyone. Early intervention in a child's upbringing where it's progress/health/welfare is compromised. Children come first, not poor parents. Reform welfare to reward and credit work.

Re-nationalisation of the railways (at the end of current leases) and a nationalised bank. Possible re-nationalisation of failing Telecoms. National investment in (as the Libs propose) docks/old skilled areas/green industries.

Make taxation progressive and close the gap between rich and poor. Close loopholes for tax evasion.

An end to irresponsible media, end to libel/claims culture (no win no fee)

Win the argument for government bonds rather than PFI.

The list goes on... I accept this is a costly wish list (and more a sense of direction) and in 1997 we were left with £hundreds of billions of unpaid bills in the bottom drawer (hospitals, schools, police). It will take a long time to reverse the problems caused in the 80's and 90's.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I'm not sure that the electorate do vote on local issues in Local elections.......I think that many just follow the political banner and vote for who they were brought up to believe in.
And in General elections I am fairly sure that the same people vote in a similar way, rather than thinking about who would deal with local issues in the best and most efficient way.
I think that many of the electorate have become apathetic about both local and National issues, because in the main, they feel that their voices are unheard....or if they are heard, then they are not listened to.

This apathy has been compounded by the very fact that so many politicians seem to live in another world......Like that buffoon Nicholas Winterton......they are so far removed from the real world being experienced by their constituents.

I studied voting patterns in Ossy over many years Margaret, an although some do vote on party lines, come-what-may, others certainly don't, that's the reason Britcliffe has never even come close to losing his St Andrews ward seat since he first won it in 1983, people vote for Peter not for Party, same with Brian Walmsley, both their roots are in Ossy, and that stands for a lot in local politics

[Neil]

Originally Posted by g jones

In Hyndburn we need to sort out welfare and employment issues.................
The list goes on... I accept this is a costly wish list (and more a sense of direction) and in 1997 we were left with £hundreds of billions of unpaid bills in the bottom drawer (hospitals, schools, police). It will take a long time to reverse the problems caused in the 80's and 90's.

How do you intend to pay for all that Graham.
The Country is already massively in debt.
Having a wish list is great but how do you intend to make it a reality?

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by jaysay

I studied voting patterns in Ossy over many years Margaret, an although some do vote on party lines, come-what-may, others certainly don't, that's the reason Britcliffe has never even come close to losing his St Andrews ward seat since he first won it in 1983, people vote for Peter not for Party, same with Brian Walmsley, both their roots are in Ossy, and that stands for a lot in local politics

Yes, you are right Jaysay...people do also vote for personalities regardless of whether they are the right person for the job.....and that is as bad as voting purely on the party banner......no, it is worse.
These voters do not look at the issues and use their cognitive thought processes to come up with a vote for the appropriate candidate....they vote with their emotions.......and communities pay the price for this.

I have no research which backs up what I say, my views are based on anecdotal evidence.

[Stumped]

Originally Posted by jaysay

If that's the case why have Britcliffe's bunch been in control for 10 of the last 11 years, even with Labour having Gods gift to Hyndburn as their leader It took the people of Hyndburn two election to turn a 44 Labour 3 Conservative council into a Conservative Controlled council

Maybe voter apathy is playing a larger part today than it ever did in the past? We can argue till doomsday over the rights and wrongs of any particular administration, but at the end of the day - particularly given today's benefits for all environment - people tend to vote for what they can squeeze out of the system whilst offering little or nothing in return.

[Stumped]

Originally Posted by g jones

In Hyndburn we need to sort out welfare and employment issues, chronic housing/planning issues. We need to stop pandering to private sector because all it delivers is poorly built little shoe box communities, all on top of each other with no quality of life built in. Recreation, open space, community facilities. We need to promote community and end/reverse the Thatcherite 'there is no such thing as society'.

We need to use taxation to invest in transport, infrastructure and manufacturing/business (as opposed to cutting taxation for the south). The Todmorden curve. Making sure not just passenger network but that we are connected for rail freight.

Promote East Lancs as an industrial/manufacturing region as well as a attractive part of the country to visit or live. Keep investing heavily in education and training but rather than just younger people, we need to target everyone. Thatcher's devastation hasn't gone away and many 40 something pluses feel left behind.

We need to move away from individualism and consumerism.

We need to have a grass roots approach to decision making. As Tower Block of Commons shows, multi-millionaires business people and easy street university graduates, all molly coddled with little or no idea how real people live their lives.

We need a big change that accepts the wishes of local people/communities.

Free NHS. Let's bring back eye and dental care. Free higher education. Cancel Trident and invest the money in counter terrorism. Steady withdrawal from active front line combat. A cautious approach to NATO expansion (unlike Cameron). Stay out of the Euro. Start rebuilding Council Houses with shared equity, owner occupation and rental in proportion. Make private sector builders work with local communities on design and build.

Tough regulation against private sector residential letting (private landlords), delegated to residents/communities bypassing government and local government?

Tougher sentences. National Service as an early intervention within the criminal justice system.

Standards for all developments focusing on energy conservation/efficiency. Look to move from a national grid to local grids, local supplies of electricity/energy.

Promote unions on boards like in Germany and promote business models with collective ownership/co-operative ownership.

Free nursery care as part of work and employment welfare reform - a job for everyone. Early intervention in a child's upbringing where it's progress/health/welfare is compromised. Children come first, not poor parents. Reform welfare to reward and credit work.

Re-nationalisation of the railways (at the end of current leases) and a nationalised bank. Possible re-nationalisation of failing Telecoms. National investment in (as the Libs propose) docks/old skilled areas/green industries.

Make taxation progressive and close the gap between rich and poor. Close loopholes for tax evasion.

An end to irresponsible media, end to libel/claims culture (no win no fee)

Win the argument for government bonds rather than PFI.

The list goes on... I accept this is a costly wish list (and more a sense of direction) and in 1997 we were left with £hundreds of billions of unpaid bills in the bottom drawer (hospitals, schools, police). It will take a long time to reverse the problems caused in the 80's and 90's.

Have you sent your wish list to Santa Clause yet, Graham?

[g jones]

Originally Posted by Stumped

Have you sent your wish list to Santa Clause yet, Graham?

No I haven't!

The easy answer was nothing because we can't afford. I answered the question as if it were a wish list to give a truer answer of the things I believe in or a sense of direction anyway.

Council Housing for example is something we may be able to do (locally). However there are significant financial, legislative and managerial problems that are hurdles that may make them unfeasible to build.

Hopes and reality.

Free nursery care as part of work and employment welfare reform - a job for everyone.
I meant by this that parents would have a better opportunity to find work.

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob

Ok, here is a very partial list of Labour achievements over the past thirteen years...

Ballot Boxes are interfered with
Voting registers go missing
The Police can kill innocent people and get away with it
The state can kill people and get away with it
You can be put in prison indefinitely on the word of a politician
The State can torture people
Your children are monitored at School by Political Officers
Their behaviour is logged on a State database for their entire lives
Your innocent fingerprints, iris scans and biometrics are held by the State
You do not have the right to remain silent
You are watched on 4 million CCTV cameras
You may not photograph the Police
You do not have the right to protest peacefully
Curfews exist for entire communities
Your travel movements are logged and monitored
Who you vote for is logged and monitored
Your shopping habits are studied and logged by the State
Your emails and telephone conversations are recorded by the State
Your passport can be withdrawn at the whim of the State
Government agencies can use lie detector tests on you.

- £22,500 of debt for every child born in Britain
- 111 tax rises from a government that promised no tax rises at all
- The longest national tax code in the world
- 100,000 million pounds drained from British pension funds
- Gun crime up 57%
- Violent crime up 70%
- The highest proportion of children living in workless households anywhere in Europe
- The number of pensioners living in poverty up by 100,000
- The lowest level of social mobility in the developed world
- The only G7 country with no growth this year
- One in six young people neither earning nor learning
- 5 million people on out-of-work benefits
- Missing the target of halving child poverty...
- Child poverty rising in each of the last three years instead
- Cancer survival rates among the worst in Europe
- Hospital-acquired infections killing nearly three times as many people as are killed on the roads
- Falling from 4th to 13th in the world competitiveness league
- Falling from 8th to 24th in the world education rankings in maths
- Falling from 7th to 17th in the rankings in literacy
- The police spending more time on paperwork than on the beat
- Fatal stabbings at an all-time high
- Prisoners released without serving their sentences
- Foreign prisoners released and never deported
- 7 million people without an NHS dentist
- Small business taxes going up
- Business taxes raised from among the lowest to among the highest in Europe
- Tax rises for working people set for after the election
- The 10p tax rate abolished
- The ludicrous promise to have ended boom and bust
- Our gold reserves sold for a quarter of their worth
- Our armed forces overstretched and under-supplied
- Profitable post offices closed against their will
- One of the highest rates of family breakdown in Europe
- The ‘Golden Rule’ on borrowing abandoned because it didn’t fit
- Police inspectors in 10 Downing Street
- Dossiers that were dodgy
- Mandelson resigning the first time
- Mandelson resigning the second time
- Mandelson coming back for a third time
- Bad news buried
- Personal details lost
- An election bottled
- A referendum denied.


Pretty impressive. The question that occurs to me is, if Graham is an honorable man, and I see no reason to believe that he is not, how can he justify asking us to vote for five more years of the same and worse? And for the other candidates, whenever they are chosen, what are you and the party you represent going to do about any of the items on the above list?

great post "Bobby Blue"... and very impartial..must have taken you some time to compose.. or did you just copy it from here?..
Labours achievements during the last 13 years. Can you add to them? - Yahoo! UK & Ireland Answers

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Mancie

great post "Bobby Blue"... and very impartial..must have taken you some time to compose.. or did you just copy it from here?..
Labours achievements during the last 13 years. Can you add to them? - Yahoo! UK & Ireland Answers

good job jambutty aint been around fer a while, would have slapped A-B fer not giving credit.