Brown's apology

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates

I am sure that I read/heard today that the Coroner stated that the lad bled to death. Therefore an internal bleed - an available helicopter may have got him to a Med Centre in time, but many serving Officers ahve stated recently that we do not have enough helicopters there?????????????

There are always shortages of equipment ... every conflict generates its own necessities, and armies are always in the process of catching up to the demands of particular situations. In WWl, it was artillery ammunition. There is a poem by Kipling which goes something like:

"If any mourn us in the workshop, say
We died because the shift kept holiday."

I believe the title is: "Batteries out of Ammunition."

I don't believe that your government is being cheap; all armies play "catch up" in all conflicts.

[keith]

behind all this lurks the sun newspaper and of course rubert murdoch all his papers both in this country and america are losing money the only things making any profit are his tv stations and david cameron has promised to look at the BBC when he gets in which means it will be sold on and look what happened to the railways

[g jones]

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates

I am sure that I read/heard today that the Coroner stated that the lad bled to death. Therefore an internal bleed - an available helicopter may have got him to a Med Centre in time, but many serving Officers ahve stated recently that we do not have enough helicopters there?????????????

really disapointed to hear this repeated ill informed comments.

Large troop carrying helicopters have a high risk of surface to air missile attack and are not designed for the front line.

Other helicopters and their crews are back here for a rest and for maintenance.

All front line ops are dangerous and having an abundance of flying machines over the battlefield is suicide and the type of assessment that a Sun journalist would come up with.

As operations have progressed so the tactics of the insurgents and foreign fighters has changed meaning we have to change and counter it by bringing new equipment on line. This happens in all wars. Take The variance and changes in IEDs and the armour plating of vehicles for instance.

Finally last month the government and the military were criticised for unneccessary and over the top spending on military equipment.

It Is quite frankly ridiculous to suggest a British Government is shortchanging our troops deliberatly. I remember when mount ? was stormed in the Falklands and our Paras and SAS were I'll equipped and when the ships in Falklands sound did not receive adequate cover leading to the sinking of the Coventry? And Sheffield? IIRC and the unneccessary loss of many British Troops. Around 268 British troops died in the Falklands.

[Gayle]

How many people are able to record their telephone conversations? How many people know in advance who is going to call in order to set up a recording system?

Seems to me that Gordon Brown was set up!

[Margaret Pilkington]

Spot on Gayle, these tactics are reprehensible, and cynical too.
Who would use the grief of a mother to further their cause?
This mother doesn't realise that she is being used in the most cynical way......her grief is being manipulated by a certain red top paper.

[Gayle]

Absolutely Margaret - I think the mother was set up as well.

[Margaret Pilkington]

That is the most distasteful aspect of this situation because it makes her look undignified.

You only need to compare her responses to those of the young widow last week to see the difference.

Jamie Janes was not conscripted. He knew the risks when he joined up, he accepted those risks. He died doing what he wanted to do.

In any conflict, the military personnel will always be able to use more resources and may cite lack of resources for perceived lack of on the ground success.....but resources are finite, and it cannot be proved that this young man would have survived his injuries if more resources had been available.

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by Gayle

How many people are able to record their telephone conversations? How many people know in advance who is going to call in order to set up a recording system?

Seems to me that Gordon Brown was set up!

According to the political editor of the rag known as the Sun trying to do a damage limitation on Radio Five earlier, the mother was sharing the call with her family using the speakerphone button, one of the family used a blackberry to record the call so they could all listen to it later.

Mrs Janes told the editor that the apology she received was not being reported by Mr Brown correctly and so she contacted the Sun with the recording, and thats how they got the transcript.

[cashman]

the sun is a shameless rag n has not entered my house fer many a year Re-Sheffield, Brown has made n apology personally, Jaysay deserves credit fer NOT point scoring, whereas Barrie is obviously a "Sun" reader who has emigrated.

[BERNADETTE]

g jones It Is quite frankly ridiculous to suggest a British Government is shortchanging our troops deliberatly. I remember when mount ? was stormed in the Falklands and our Paras and SAS were I'll equipped and when the ships in Falklands sound did not receive adequate cover leading to the sinking of the Coventry? And Sheffield? IIRC and the unneccessary loss of many British Troops. Around 268 British troops died in the Falklands.

And your mentioning the Falklands is not having a dig at the goverment of the time ie Tories?

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by BERNADETTE

And your mentioning the Falklands is not having a dig at the goverment of the time ie Tories?

British armed forces have been ill equiped in any conflicts on foriegn soils for 100's of years.. no matter if it's been Labour, Tory or even Liberal.
The present Government has committed Billions into building two new aircraft carriers and a possible replacement for Trident..the Tories have stated they will "review" this as part of spending cuts...in a few years time it will be a Tory Government blamed for not spending enough on Defence.

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by Less

I agree whole heartedly with you there Jaysay, though no doubt Manky will find a way of proving you just wanted to make another dig at Gorden & New Labour.

it all seems like reasonable .. but manky? less of less would be best.. I would go futher but some old men are just ..old men

[Barrie Yates]

Originally Posted by cashman

the sun is a shameless rag n has not entered my house fer many a year Re-Sheffield, Brown has made n apology personally, Jaysay deserves credit fer NOT point scoring, whereas Barrie is obviously a "Sun" reader who has emigrated.

Sorry to say that you have got it wrong once again. I am not and have never been a Sun reader - didn't it support Labour until recently?
British Forces have always been short of equipment either in quantity or type - in the '60s the Malaysian Army had SLR rifles and Sterling Sub-machine guns - we had Lee-Enfield rifles and Sten Guns. Despite snakes,scorpions etc we were issued with sandals as there were no Jungle Boots available for us - unless we bought them in the local Bata shop. Same for the Falklands - quick trip to some shop in the Lake District to get some decent kit for my son - better quality than issue kit.

And a comment for g jones :- Sorry, but i find it hard to determine the logic within your post, somewhat fragmented and inaccurate.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Gayle

How many people are able to record their telephone conversations? How many people know in advance who is going to call in order to set up a recording system?

Seems to me that Gordon Brown was set up!

I was able to tape my Telephone calls Gayle, and did so for many years, it does come in handy sometimes

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by BERNADETTE

And your mentioning the Falklands is not having a dig at the goverment of the time ie Tories?

There was also a big difference between the two conflicts Bernie, the Falklands were British Sovereign Territories, unlike Afghanistan