Built to Last - Page 4

garinda · 03-09-2006, 10:27

At the moment, if the AW poll is a good indicator, we will have a hung parliament, with Labour and the Conservatives on equal seats, the same as all the other parties combined.

andrewb · 03-09-2006, 10:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

Never been worse! when was it people were dying on trollies in corridors ? ten years ago.. your disgusting tory party almost dismantled the NHS.. its not good now but its a dam site better then when you lot had it.. come on the tories voted against it in the first place and their natural instinct is to dimantle the NHS! don't give us the same old dilly dally cuts will improve the service and compact it rubbish.. you don't like it, and if you get back in power would try your best to pull it apart bit by bit

You are living in a fantasy world. David Cameron has expressed the need to keep the NHS, I believe we should keep the NHS.

Making up fairy tails about what you think is going to happen under a Conservative government is quite pointless. I consider myself a Tory and my insistinct is not to dismantle the NHS. Its not a damn sight better according to the people who work their.

How did the Conservatives almost dismantle the NHS?

andrewb · 03-09-2006, 10:31

Quote:

cameron has not set any figures on anything!.. we get say 2p in the pound tax cut so we get a few quid a week extra.. but we pay when everything you did not give to the multi nationals (french and germans) like water, gas, electric, and more.. why is cameron different from any other tory? heard it all before bruv.

Now how silly would he look to provide a definate tax cut figure today, and then when the general election comes around, the economy is totaly different and he has to u-turn. You'd be the first up in arms about how they u-turned on tax cutting, you can't please everyone.

We don't pay extra because of privatisation if that is what you are implying. There is much competition now so you can choose which provider you want, rather than having a staterun monopoly which is only accountable to every five years.

As for the 'why is he different'. He is taking the party in a new direction, using the same values but applying them differently to the way that he sees Britain today would like it. If you don't like the ideas, then don't vote, but not voting because of things 20years ago (which I may add labour have not tried to reverse) is not going to get you the best deal today.

Mancie · 03-09-2006, 10:38

the conservatives introduced the "private management" initutive not only in the NHS but in all state run industries.. they simply franchised the management to private companies and the lowest the bid won that management! and still is to this day!.. I worked at the dti at the time and had to accept the lowest bids for cleaners/porters contracts.. had to accept the lowest bid no matter what the companies work record,employee investment, pension scheme, wage structure or anything... lets get back to those "good ole days" under the tories!!!

andrewb · 03-09-2006, 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mancie

the conservatives introduced the "private management" initutive not only in the NHS but in all state run industries.. they simply franchised the management to private companies and the lowest the bid won that management! and still is to this day!.. I worked at the dti at the time and had to accept the lowest bids for cleaners/porters contracts.. had to accept the lowest bid no matter what the companies work record,employee investment, pension scheme, wage structure or anything... lets get back to those "good ole days" under the tories!!!

If any of that was true, then it would still be the same today wouldn't it? We still have contracted private sectors into parts of the NHS. Yet it magicly became workable under a Labour government? Even though it wasn't reversed and rather, Blair is just continuing the privatisation.

g jones · 03-09-2006, 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

No, no, Mr C, you've got it all wrong. "The streets are now safe at night." Graham says so!

I think Cashman lives on my street or I am wrong?

SPUGGIE J · 03-09-2006, 10:56

We are stuck with the private management wether we like it or not and for better or worse its hear to stay for the foreseable future. The state could not afford a lot of what went private and still couldnt so now its a case of let them be run as cost effective as possible. The NHS has got too many layers and does need the diet to free up money but it needs to be done as efficiently as possible without causing large amounts of agro. Its size and budget make it hard though not impossible to manage and regardless of who is in power it will never be perfect. It is a learn by your mistakes senario and at some point a balance will be reached.

As to mancies point about lowest bids I agree its far from perfect as even the company I work for have gone down that route in order to save money and not have to worry about what they get providing those doing the subieing reach the minimum level required. We may not like it but the laws of economics dictate that it has to be done and will be done in the future. The NHS may not be there to make money but any money saved will be plowed back in to the services we expect.

No pain no gain unfortunately.

Wynonie Harris · 03-09-2006, 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones

I think Cashman lives on my street or I am wrong?

No, he doesn't, Graham.

g jones · 03-09-2006, 11:12

The best explanation of Tory incompetence I shall leave to David Cameron "We were wrong to privatise the railways".

Subsidies have escalated under Tory policies to £6bn a year. The network is now £22bn in debt and escalating. David Cameron was one of Norman Lamont's special advisor's on Black Wednesday.

SPUGGIE J · 03-09-2006, 11:16

That maybe true but I for one benifit from it in the fares department. If the subcidies stoped I would guess at a four fold increase in fares would occur.

Again no pain no gain.

grannyclaret · 03-09-2006, 11:21

Looking at the poll..There are 8 people who say they wont vote,,,I think you should,,,,even if you spoil your vote,,,

,but hey what business is it of mine?

Wynonie Harris · 03-09-2006, 11:22

Surely, the state SHOULD subsidise public transport systems in order to make them a more attractive alternative to motoring? I don't have any figures, but I was under the impression that other European countries like France and Spain subsidise their railway systems to a much greater extent than we do.

yerself · 03-09-2006, 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones

The best explanation of Tory incompetence I shall leave to David Cameron "We were wrong to privatise the railways".

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Osborne MP

TRAVELLING by train from Manchester to Liverpool could take just 10 minutes, if a Conservative government invested in Japanese magnetic levitation technology.

Full article here: http://www.manchestereveningnews.co....0_minutes.html

Bet you'll all vote conservative now

SPUGGIE J · 03-09-2006, 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by yerself

Full article here: http://www.manchestereveningnews.co....0_minutes.html

Bet you'll all vote conservative now

Maglev trains may be fast but are very expensive to build. Though an hour from London to Glasgow appeals to some. Mind you a train doing 300mph+ through the countryside might not go down too well.

As for voting I aint made my mind up. Last time I had the privelige some of the local as well as national were at the same time making it hard to be sure my vote went where it was supposed to be.

andrewb · 03-09-2006, 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones

The best explanation of Tory incompetence I shall leave to David Cameron "We were wrong to privatise the railways".

Subsidies have escalated under Tory policies to £6bn a year. The network is now £22bn in debt and escalating. David Cameron was one of Norman Lamont's special advisor's on Black Wednesday.

I hate how this is constantly brought up, and to people who don't know what exactly happened, they'll make a link between Cameron/Conservatives and black wednesday, when in actual fact it could have happened under any government.