Burn baby

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Mick

Can we get back on thread thanks

I'm all for that ... just think of it as a little comic relief ... after all, what would "Lear" be without the fool.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Doctors and nurses can invoke the conscience clause when dealing with termination of pregnancy.
So they may not acctually be keen to do a referral themselves but should be able to refer the patient to someone else, so that the woman can access treatment.
Family planning clinics will refer and you can visit another GP(other than your own) and ask for emergency treatment.

Sounds a little involved and twentieth century-ish ... much easier to pick up the phone and call the local women's clinic, or go to a free-standing clinic.

[Margaret Pilkington]

That's just how it is Eric. I would guess the the nearest we have to your version of the women's clinic would be what used to be the family planning clinics...now renamed CaSH clinics(Contraception and Sexual Health).
I have tried to do a search about how many there are and when they run the clinics, but Google must know I'm past it...and keeps dropping out(either that or the demand for these services is so hot that their web site is down).

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

That's just how it is Eric.

Come to think of it, that's not good enough for the UK, or for anywhere. If you think beyond the procedure, beyond the "emotiveness" of the issue, what it boils down to is this: in any country where there is an abortion law, women are being denied equality. For me, that's it, plain and simple.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Eric, I can see past the emotiveness or I would not have been able to work in such an area for so long.
And to be honest, I think that if a woman really does want this service then she could get it without too much trouble.

[US Angel]

No matter what side of the fence you stand on with this subject I think it is disgusting

[Less]

Originally Posted by US Angel

No matter what side of the fence you stand on with this subject I think it is disgusting

What is disgusting? The burning of fetus's or women having the right to a termination if they need it?

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Less

What is disgusting? The burning of fetus's or women having the right to a termination if they need it?

Maybe it's that American thingy ... for some reason lots of them, particularly south of the Mason-Dixon line and in the Bible Belt, can believe in the sanctity of life, the death penalty, and the right to own lethal weapons, and do all this without the slightest awareness of the contradictions. And lots of them want laws which prevent more than half the population from having unfettered access to health care that less than half the population have without without question ... and abortion is, a medical procedure, nothing more, nothing less. I don't see folks marching with placards protesting a male's right to a vasectomy.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by US Angel

No matter what side of the fence you stand on with this subject I think it is disgusting

Do you mean the subject of abortion...or the subject of cremating foetal remains...if it is abortion......then
that is fine.
You are entitled to your opinion...and no-one will ever make you have a termination of pregnancy.....but those people who censure women who require this treatment make them have babies that they do not want,cannot care for, tried to prevent(or in the case of genetic abnormalities - make them have handicapped babies/life limited babies).

[US Angel]

Originally Posted by Less

What is disgusting? The burning of fetus's or women having the right to a termination if they need it?

The burning of the fetus

[US Angel]

Originally Posted by Eric

Maybe it's that American thingy ... for some reason lots of them, particularly south of the Mason-Dixon line and in the Bible Belt, can believe in the sanctity of life, the death penalty, and the right to own lethal weapons, and do all this without the slightest awareness of the contradictions. And lots of them want laws which prevent more than half the population from having unfettered access to health care that less than half the population have without without question ... and abortion is, a medical procedure, nothing more, nothing less. I don't see folks marching with placards protesting a male's right to a vasectomy.

I believe there is still a lot in the UK the think the same way so it is not
"An American Thingy" mainly south of the Mason-Dixon line bible Belt

I am neither Pro Life or Pro Choice I think that is up to the people having to make that important choice themselves

[Margaret Pilkington]

Well, if you had read my earlier posts you will see that this is done(in our area) at the local crematorium, and in a dignified manner.
It did not used to be done in this way. The foetal remains were sent to a clinical disposal unit for incineration. This was back in the eighties....and it has not been done in this way since.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by US Angel

The burning of the fetus

What would you suggest the UK does with the products from it's 200,000 terminations each year?

[kestrelx]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

We've sort of been here before,

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...ium-56620.html

I was going to point this out. There was also something a few years back about heating a school from a crematorium. I am not against abortion - and some would complain if they were thrown in a hole in the ground - it doesn't matter to them how they are disposed of. The OP is basically being moral about abortion saying it's wrong.

After an abortion what should happen to it Less? What is really wrong with recycling any heat from any incineration? After all the females concerned can't take away the foetus give it away and bury it.

[lettie]

I know that I haven't posted for a while and this is an emotive thread to post in. I can confirm that Margaret was indeed on the committee to change how we care for women with any kind of foetal loss and how the remains are dealt with. In our local area, this has been done very sensitively for years.

Women who have lost a baby are not put on wards with heavily pregnant women or newborns. If the loss is early (less than 12 weeks), chances are they will either be at home anyway or go home asap. If they are 12-20 weeks they will go home asap, women are given the option to take foetal remains home with them to bury as they wish. Most women don't take up this option but some do. It is not illegal to bury foetal remains on your property, there are some conditions to this in order to protect water supplies and declaring the burial if you sell your house but this option is perfectly legal and available to all women. Anybody over 20 weeks goes to the Birth Suite. They are nursed in a self contained apartment with it's own bathroom, living area/kitchen. This is separate from the rest of the ward and the women who are cared for here rarely complain. Again, women are given the opportunity to take their baby home for a funeral or burial on their property.

If the baby is over 24 weeks this is classed as a stillbirth (even if it's a termination). Women are entitled to a termination at any time if the baby has severe abnormalities that are classed as incompatible with life. Therefore, in these circumstances, a woman can terminate a pregnancy right up until full term. These poor babies rarely survive labour and usually arrive asleep.

The family are cared for in Birth Suite's self contained apartment. They can stay as long as they like, relatives are encouraged to visit. They are given mementos such as a lock of hair, photographs, hand and footprints. We also do this for any baby from about 18 weeks to full term. If the baby is over 24 weeks, the birth needs to be registered (even if it's a termination), until registration a funeral or any other form of disposal cannot be legally arranged.

Whatever the gestation or circumstances we try to treat our women and their families with respect. They are given choices around their care, disposal of remains, aftercare and ongoing family planning. This is done as sensitively as possible and a lot of staff have worked very hard over the last 20 years to ensure that we have the best possible standards locally.

I hope that this post has clarified a few issues and maybe answered a few questions about what happens now. I cannot guarantee that other areas of the country follow the guidelines which we use locally.