But there's nothing for us to do!

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Guinness

.

I wouldn't have participated in such a club way back in the early 70's, because it was uncool way back then. Nothing has changed in 40 years, it is not a new phenomenon.



There we'll have to disagree, in my opinion ALL religious groups are unsavoury and someone who blindly follows the dogma of the religion should be nowhere near impressionable kids.



Agreed..that particular age group want nothing you or I can provide. A street corner to them is an accyweb to us dinosaurs

Ya but we're not all Brahms and list on here guinness every Friday and causing a nuisance, well the majority aren't anyway

[Margaret Pilkington]

It is Ok to disagree.
I think that for children to be able to make decisions they have to have a variety of experiences.
I must be at least 20 years older that you are. We went to church and to Sunday school.....and it was through these organisations that we had contact(real contact) with other children of our own age. We were given options to do things(or not do them)...to attend parties(well if you call a spam butty and a glass of Kia Ora, a party)...we went on outings, to panto's, the seaside....and this was our only opportunity to do these things. Some of us made friendships which would last through life.
We had experiences which made us able to determine what was 'rubbish' and what was not.......we didn't believe all that we were told...so obviously, not that impressionable. I guess that is why I am now so very cynical...my background, my upbringing, my social contacts.
Todays young folk communicate by text...even when they are in the same room...they don't do face to face conversations...they talk in text speak...they have few interpersonal skills.......they are the product of society and in some instances, what can only be considered, lazy parenting.( please note the 'some' in bold).

[Guinness]

So here we have a 19 year old..

Obviously poorly educated, more than likely a real handful for his teachers, probably got up to who knows what rather than going to a youth club, church social, when he was 14/15

Obviously some pretty lax parenting went on too..becase he writes to his mum incorporating the f word a couple of times.

'Hello mum, this is going to be hard for you to read ...' - Home News - UK - The Independent

(I still have a lump in my throat)

Strange how another young soldier, well educated, praised by his teachers, who still goes to church regularly, has had a wider variety of experiences than the previous young lad and has probably never used the f word to his surviving parent and step mother makes a different headline the same day

Naked pictures of Prince Harry published - Home News - UK - The Independent

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Guinness

So here we have a 19 year old..

Obviously poorly educated, more than likely a real handful for his teachers, probably got up to who knows what rather than going to a youth club, church social, when he was 14/15

Obviously some pretty lax parenting went on too..becase he writes to his mum incorporating the f word a couple of times.

'Hello mum, this is going to be hard for you to read ...' - Home News - UK - The Independent

(I still have a lump in my throat)

Strange how another young soldier, well educated, praised by his teachers, who still goes to church regularly, has had a wider variety of experiences than the previous young lad and has probably never used the f word to his surviving parent and step mother makes a different headline the same day

Naked pictures of Prince Harry published - Home News - UK - The Independent

Um very apt Gremlin

[Margaret Pilkington]

And there is the link between these two boys.......although one is a privileged toff......they both went out to an inhospitable place to serve their country......only one came home. The one who came home lets off steam in the way that lots of young men do...but because he is in the public gaze he is slated for it........who knows what he saw. What horrible sights he is trying to bury by partying and acting the 'lad'.

I'm sure if Cyrus had survived he would have gone to Amsterdam and partied with his pals, he would not have received a second glance...or any criticism.

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

And there is the link between these two boys.......although one is a privileged toff......they both went out to an inhospitable place to serve their country......only one came home. The one who came home lets off steam in the way that lots of young men do...but because he is in the public gaze he is slated for it........who knows what he saw. What horrible sights he is trying to bury by partying and acting the 'lad'.

I'm sure if Cyrus had survived he would have gone to Amsterdam and partied with his pals, he would not have received a second glance...or any criticism.

I kinda agree with you Margaret, however I really doubt that Harry would be placed in anywhere near the same danger as the other young lad. But fair play to Harry sowing his oats, and like you I'm sure the other young lad would have done the same in Amsterdam.

Many arguments in this debate have been about kids using their wide experience, going to youth clubs and church socials making them better people.

I'm trying to point out that this is not the case, and that newspaper headlines about 14/15 year old kids moaning about having nothing to do are pretty much aimed at reinforcing some of the cliches made in this thread about the kids of today, many of whom will become, like this young soldier, something to be proud of

[jaysay]

Sorry Guinness got you mixed up with Gremlin

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Sorry Guinness got you mixed up with Gremlin

Hehe..been called far worse than that

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Guinness

I kinda agree with you Margaret, however I really doubt that Harry would be placed in anywhere near the same danger as the other young lad. But fair play to Harry sowing his oats, and like you I'm sure the other young lad would have done the same in Amsterdam.

Many arguments in this debate have been about kids using their wide experience, going to youth clubs and church socials making them better people.

I'm trying to point out that this is not the case, and that newspaper headlines about 14/15 year old kids moaning about having nothing to do are pretty much aimed at reinforcing some of the cliches made in this thread about the kids of today, many of whom will become, like this young soldier, something to be proud of

I agree that there are many young folk who do not fit the stereotypes - they are the ones who go out and become involved in their community.....unfortunately these are not the ones who make the headlines....so the picture is always going to be a bit 'skewed'.
Sometimes it takes time for the young folk to see that what their parents(or adult guardians) are telling them is to stop them from making the mistakes made by those parents/adult guardians.....we forget that the only mistakes that you learn from are those that you painfully make, and have to correct.....It doesn't stop us from trying to tell them what not to do though.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I agree that there are many young folk who do not fit the stereotypes - they are the ones who go out and become involved in their community.....unfortunately these are not the ones who make the headlines....so the picture is always going to be a bit 'skewed'.
Sometimes it takes time for the young folk to see that what their parents(or adult guardians) are telling them is to stop them from making the mistakes made by those parents/adult guardians.....we forget that the only mistakes that you learn from are those that you painfully make, and have to correct.....It doesn't stop us from trying to tell them what not to do though.

The only problem today Margaret seems to be that the words don't do that, is like switching a light on for some youngsters say I'll do that then, that didn't happen very often in our day

[Margaret Pilkington]

To some degree I think we, as parents haven't helped.......we have had hard lives(or certainly my early life was hard) and we wanted better for our children......we have gone too far the other way in making things too cushy for many youngsters. To develop and grow there has to be a degree of 'need'....and I'm not sure I have explained that very well.......but I hope you get my point. We have mollycoddled them instead of making them stand on their own feet.
We haven't been hard enough with them...they missed out on the 'tough love'.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

To some degree I think we, as parents haven't helped.......we have had hard lives(or certainly my early life was hard) and we wanted better for our children......we have gone too far the other way in making things too cushy for many youngsters. To develop and grow there has to be a degree of 'need'....and I'm not sure I have explained that very well.......but I hope you get my point. We have mollycoddled them instead of making them stand on their own feet.
We haven't been hard enough with them...they missed out on the 'tough love'.

At last, some sense, kids, children, offspring, call them what you want, of course they're spoilt in comparison, no-one want's them to go through the hardships that centuries of toil and scarcity their Parents et al went through, so now they have it handed to them on a plate?

Try being an ordinary child and being able to find a job when you leave school, they are expected to, but they see how nearly impossible it is in their last years at school. We wanted to improve, we, had the chances of, if we worked hard we got rewarded, they work hard and if they are really, really, lucky get put on a useless training scheme that has no prospects at the end of it.

Call them for their shortcomings if you wish, I think they are having a harder time than we ever experienced, no wonder they give up.

[Margaret Pilkington]

it is a different kind of harder time.
I don't know about you, but I left school and hit the job market in one of those 'bulge years'........I don't recall there being any kind of training schemes....unless of course you were taken on to be an apprentice.
Pospects were not that bright for us either. You might say 'yes, but there was always manufacturing'.....and there was.......if you could get a job.

I eventually got a job...but it wasn't what I wanted to do.

[susie123]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

it is a different kind of harder time.
I don't know about you, but I left school and hit the job market in one of those 'bulge years'........I don't recall there being any kind of training schemes....unless of course you were taken on to be an apprentice.
Pospects were not that bright for us either. You might say 'yes, but there was always manufacturing'.....and there was.......if you could get a job.

I eventually got a job...but it wasn't what I wanted to do.

And we didn't leave school with the expectation of having our own house and car within a few years as well as everything else that goes with that.

I wouldn't want to be young these days - too many pressures of that sort from every direction.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Well, I certainly didn't have any expectations. I left school at 15 with no paper qualifications......my only expectation was hard work and plenty of it.(that was spot on!)