Can a leopard change its spots? - Page 3

Graham Jones · 22-04-2005, 17:25

...and who was it that has let them get away with it for so long?????

TONY BLAIR & GORDON BROWN IN 2001, I ACCEPT!!!!

Wake up and look around you.

TO SEE WHAT, WHAT YOU SEE OR WHAT I SEE OR BOTH?

There's a real world out there with real people, working hard to have a decent standard of living, being screwed left right and centre with stealth taxes to pay for Tony's antics.

TAXES ARE UP, PUBLIC SPENDING IS UP, NO ARGUMENTS ABOUT THAT.

PEOPLE BEING SCREWED, I DONT KNOW HOW YOU MAKE THAT GIANT LEAP OF AN ARGUMENT.

I WORK IN MANUFACTURIJNG AND ALL OUR INDUSTRY IS BOOMING.

2% UNEMPLOYMENT IN HYNDBURN.

ITS THE FIRST TIME EVER [SINCE 1982 WHEN I LEFT SCHOOL] I HAVE FELT CONFIDENT IN THE ECONOMY. SAME FOR ALL THE WORKING CLASS I KNOW, YOU DONT MAKE ANY SENSE ON THIS LAST POINT.

Pensioners watch out, you're next on his hit list! Don't be fooled into thinking that you'll get a decent pension just because you've paid your contributions all your life.

THIS IS JUST TORY HYSTERICS NOW, WHAT STARTED AS SENSIBLE IS BECOMING POLITCAL DOGMA.

MY GRAN IS 92, SHE HAS NEVER HAD SO GOOD. THERE ARE SOME DOWNS [COUNCIL TAX] AND SOME UPS [PENSION CREDITS, EXTRA ALLOWANCES]

PENSIONERS HAVE A MINIMUM INCOME GUARANTEE,THE ONES YOU SLAG OFF FOR NOT SAVING ENOUGH DURING THEIR WORKING LIFE AND ARE RELIANT ON THOSE EXTRA ALOWANCES THE TORIES NEVER GAVE WHILST PEGGING RISES TO BELOW INFLATION.

AND TAXES HAVE GONE INTO EDUCATION AND NHS, THE LATTER VERY BENEFICIAL FOR PENSIONERS.

And woe betide anyone who scrimped and scraped to save carefully so they can have a few little extras. He's having that off you too!

YOU'VE GONE OFF AT THE DEEP END. LABOUR HAS A 24 POINT LEAD ON THE ECONOMY AND A 10 PERCENT LEAD ON TAXATION.

pendy · 22-04-2005, 17:45

This Government has done more to erode personal freedom than any previous one, Oliver Cromwell not excepted.

And the only thing Tealeaf missed was Landlord Blair saying "No mate, you can't have beer, it's bad for you. But don't worry, my tap water is only £2.80 a pint".

Alice · 22-04-2005, 17:54

[QUOTE=Graham Jones

PENSIONERS HAVE A MINIMUM INCOME GUARANTEE,THE ONES YOU SLAG OFF FOR NOT SAVING ENOUGH DURING THEIR WORKING LIFE AND ARE RELIANT ON THOSE EXTRA ALOWANCES THE TORIES NEVER GAVE WHILST PEGGING RISES TO BELOW INFLATION.

[/QUOTE]

Where did I "slag off" anyone? If you read it properly you'll realise the point I was trying to make was that none of the pensioners get a decent amount...AND... that even those who can manage to save a few extra quid by doing without over the years(something that was very much encouraged when the older generation was growing up) would get a double whammy by getting even less!

If the state pension was paid at a reasonable level and there was no means testing to get it, everyone would get a fair deal. No one deserves the indignity of being means tested just to get their pension.

It's not a "free lunch". Those who can have paid for it already through their tax and NI contributions and those who can't I am happy to assist with my own.

PS: Not all anti-Blairites are Tory. You ass.u.me too much!

staggeringman · 22-04-2005, 18:08

I Work In Manufacturijng And All Our Industry Is Booming.

Mg Rovers New Model Is Out On Monday.............?
The New Model Is The P45.

Booming Is It .

Graham Jones · 22-04-2005, 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alice

Where did I "slag off" anyone? If you read it properly you'll realise the point I was trying to make was that none of the pensioners get a decent amount...AND... that even those who can manage to save a few extra quid by doing without over the years(something that was very much encouraged when the older generation was growing up) would get a double whammy by getting even less!

If the state pension was paid at a reasonable level and there was no means testing to get it, everyone would get a fair deal. No one deserves the indignity of being means tested just to get their pension.

It's not a "free lunch". Those who can have paid for it already through their tax and NI contributions and those who can't I am happy to assist with my own.

PS: Not all anti-Blairites are Tory. You ass.u.me too much!

I think Labour should do more about pensions and means testing is not the ideal solution, however there are more pensioners than workers can pay for. But to pay for the ideal means taxes up and you make a big point against that. Running the govt isnt easy with so many expectations.

Its obvious that Labour recognises the problem but can't afford the ideal solution and you end up with means testing and allowances which old folk don't particularly like. All theses extras paid for by stealth taxes, as is the NHS funding. Its a catch 22.

You have to put in context which I am sure you do, the Conservatives history of cutting pensions through dodgy indexation.

However those that have paid just the basic [and SERPS has been around since the early 70s & Barabara Castle] could be criticised for not putting anything away and saving and therefore why should they deserve anything at all?

As Michael Howard said, 'I dont mind a proper debate' and I would add "and I can accept well thought out arguments', not neccessarily agree entirely, but accept none the less.

Graham Jones · 22-04-2005, 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by staggeringman

I Work In Manufacturijng And All Our Industry Is Booming.

Mg Rovers New Model Is Out On Monday.............?
The New Model Is The P45.

Booming Is It .

British car plants are the most efficient in europe so if the economy is going down the plug on the car industry why not the others. The argument doesnt hold any water.

MGs problems appear unique. However it has cost 60 Accy jobs this week, may be the whole 200 as AT Mouldings were 50% reliant on MG. Govt Office has been notified to see about the redundancy help offered to MG.

staggeringman · 22-04-2005, 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Jones

British car plants are the most efficient in europe so if the economy is going down the plug on the car industry why not the others. The argument doesnt hold any water.

MGs problems appear unique. However it has cost 60 Accy jobs this week, may be the whole 200 as AT Mouldings were 50% reliant on MG. Govt Office has been notified to see about the redundancy help offered to MG.

how many british made car manufacturers are there in britain?
you said that industry is booming then you turn around and say 60 jobs to go in accrington?
make your mind up!
its not the only place in accrington that is laying people off either!
the british car plants are here in this country because the government give them so much bloody money to set up here and keep as many as possible off the dole...ie nissan u.k

Margaret Pilkington · 22-04-2005, 20:02

Which Labour Liar was it that took us to war in Iraq........let me think......oh yes it was Tony Blair.
How can we trust the politicians when they obviously do not listen to the electorate.......and forgive me for saying this but aren't we the ones who pay these people.....?

Violent crime is down..........or so our esteemed Pm tells us......but yet daily we hear of violent attacks on people who are doing no more than going about their daily business.

Tony told us he was going to be tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime......they tell us that lots of the crime is fuelled by binge drinking.......so what do the government do but change the law so that pubs can be open for 24/7.

And you think I want more of this.......?

I haven't the foggiest who I will vote for.........but I do not think it will be Labour.

As I said in an earlier post......choosing a party to vote for is like deciding whether I want to be shot or poisoned...... the outcome is the same!

Whoever I vote for will not listen to what I want.

Margaret Pilkington · 22-04-2005, 20:04

The elected politicians will give me what they THINK is good for me.........politics stinks!

janet · 22-04-2005, 20:09

I see we have the ukip standing in accy now, along with the bnp.Should spice up the voting in town this time around.

Acrylic-bob · 22-04-2005, 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Jones

I think Labour should do more about pensions and means testing is not the ideal solution, however there are more pensioners than workers can pay for. But to pay for the ideal means taxes up and you make a big point against that. Running the govt isnt easy with so many expectations.

Its obvious that Labour recognises the problem but can't afford the ideal solution and you end up with means testing and allowances which old folk don't particularly like. All theses extras paid for by stealth taxes, as is the NHS funding. Its a catch 22.

Funny, isn't it, how Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United States and even our European partners all seem to be able to manage to pay decent, if not in some cases generous, pensions without having to risk bankrupting the country or resorting to means testing. Could government difficulty with the state pension not have more to do with the half arsed way it is set up and their inability or unwillingness to change it?

I always thought that politics was supposed to be 'the art of the possible' not the art of making excuses and wriggling out of your responsibilities.

PurpleLass · 22-04-2005, 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by janet

I see we have the ukip standing in accy now, along with the bnp.Should spice up the voting in town this time around.

Or dilute the opposition!

They say that you shouldn't vote for the party leader but you should vote for the best person in your constituency. So Cllr Jones, what has Greg Pope actually done for this town? I don't want to know how he voted on the war, or stuff like that - just tell me what he has done for this town.

Margaret Pilkington · 22-04-2005, 20:40

I have saved up and contributed to a private pension scheme just so that I could have some comfort as I get older........I thought that I was doing the right thing, but by having done this I may have excluded myself from state benefits.

Acrylic-bob · 22-04-2005, 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Jones

British car plants are the most efficient in europe so if the economy is going down the plug on the car industry why not the others. The argument doesnt hold any water.

It only "doesn't hold water " if you walk round with your eyes closed and your ears blocked.

You can be as efficient as you like, but it doesn't really make any difference if you can't persuade people to buy what you make - just ask the former shareholders and workers of Platt Saco -Lowell!

vorlon24 · 22-04-2005, 21:53

I have a couple of ideas to save money - stop Social Fund loans would be a start.

Pay benefits for 6 months only, as in America.

Means-test free healthcare. As far as I know, most (if not all) Western Countries have to pay. It may sound extreme at the moment, but in these countries it is normal. That would raise a lot of revenue, which would go some way towards providing half-decent state pensions.

On a side note; if anyone is considering paying £50 per month towards a pension, you may as well not bother, unless you are 5 or less. Get a good financial adviser, who will be able to give you a much better idea of what you need to pay towards your retirement to make it worthwhile.

I have seen too many people who say that they saved for a pension and complain that it is not enough to live on, when they have not paid enough into it in the first place.

And that's not a dig at anyone, that is speaking from experience.