Can a leopard change its spots?

Acrylic-bob · 19-04-2005, 06:50

Not according to this article in todays Times...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1575570,00.html

I wondered how long it would take before he reverted to type. It will be remembered that Mandelson was one of the architects of New Labour. A close friend of Tone and Cherie. What was that criticism of New labour I heard a while back? Oh yes, I remember now, "More conservative than the Conservatives" Well for those of us who remember the twilight of the last Conservative administration, doesn't this article prove the truth of that statement.

Errmmm, have you heard the one about Margaret Beckett and John Prescott and the free flats in Admiralty Arch? Or David Blunkett still occupying the Home Secretary's official residence?

vorlon24 · 19-04-2005, 12:24

Why does none of that surprise me?

I really think we need a change of government on 5 May

cashman · 19-04-2005, 14:41

nope don't suprise me neither,but i honestly think labour are best of an exceedingly BAD bunch.

vorlon24 · 19-04-2005, 14:53

Another 5 years of broken promises - yeah, sounds great to me.

Not.

I was at a client meeting last night, and he said that he was always a labour supporter, but not any longer, due to too many broken promises.

We have had 8 years of it, and I've had enough, quite frankly

Tealeaf · 19-04-2005, 15:30

If New labour was a business, it's name would be Rover.

Graham Jones · 19-04-2005, 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorlon24

Another 5 years of broken promises - yeah, sounds great to me.

Not.

I was at a client meeting last night, and he said that he was always a labour supporter, but not any longer, due to too many broken promises.

We have had 8 years of it, and I've had enough, quite frankly

Sounds like you are a die hard Tory. Me and all my mates are happy-ish with Labour and will be voting Labour again. And if there was any doubt I don't need 10 words, just two. Michael Howard. However Hyndburn has really benefited and things have never been better in our time.

Considering in 97 the country was down and out it has been a hard slog back but you have to give credit where credit is due. Things are on the up in housing, crime, education, employment and economy, health IN HYNDBURN. Despite the tribal politics it has been 8 years of steady [not spectacular] improvment.

Thats why the only card the Tories have is their old dirty tricks cards of trying to 'lie thing up'. Hospital cleaniless, immigration. They wont talk about the other 3. Dog whistle politics for the minority 30%.

This election has been charaterised by rabid Tories, filling messageboards, phoning up talk shows and trying to 'speak for everyone' that the country is going to the dogs. Its been an energetic campaign but the Tories havent learned the lessons on 97. People dont want bull, they want improvments. Just list them around Hyndburn. Things we never had or have any chance of under Howard. He'll take them all away. Tax cuts for the rich to pay for half price private health care for the rich!!

£35bn worth of cuts including the new deal. So thats no youth traing in Hyndburn, no housing investment and cutting millions from Hyndburns housing programme, scrapping of elevate, scrapping the schools improvment programme, scrapping sure start and childrens centres, cutting police numbers [and probably putting police back in panda cars to make further savings!!] and community wardens [as the local Tories have done already!]. Removing billions from the NHS into private health care for the rich. I am not having any of that. The government has goven millions to Hyndburn Borough Council. Thats right Tory controlled and bankcrupt.

Lets remember the days when we had the softest home secretary and yobs running amok - yes Michael Howard. Where were the tough measures then? I cant remember any? I can tell you this though. We have just had the toughest home secretary I can remember and tough laws have been passed. Most recently the Housing Act to stamp on landlords. Backed up with record police numbers.

Lets remember the last time Tories were getting all aggressive 'about our country'. The minimum wage was going to destroy business and lose millions of jobs. Labour couldn't handle the economy and the country would go belly up within the first term of a Labour govt. All I have to say to rabid Tories is if you go into a bookmakers, make sure you leave your wallet at home. Your predictions aren't very good.

A vote for Howard is vote for a bunch of cranks and crackpots who care very little for places like Hyndburn who have benfitted under Labour. No a leopard does not change its spots Mr Poll Tax, you keep appealing to the ignorant and the selfish and we'll keep voting against you.

vorlon24 · 19-04-2005, 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Jones

Things are on the up in housing, crime, education, employment and economy

Housing costs were spiralling out of control, and are still too expensive to the first time buyer

Crime is up, yes, and worryingly, assault type crime is on the increase.

Education? Top up fees, pricing many students out of further education

Employment? Tell that to the Rover ex-employees

Economy. Even that is starting to slip, now that the Tory legacy is well and truly over.

Oh, and I won't be voting Tory this time either!

Graham Jones · 19-04-2005, 16:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorlon24

Housing costs were spiralling out of control, and are still too expensive to the first time buyer

And whose the only party talking about affordable homes and who is putting millions into the RSLs and the Housing Corp!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorlon24

Crime is up, yes, and worryingly, assault type crime is on the increase.

I presume that is lifted straight from the 1979 manifesto. All I can say is what an absolute load of cock and bull. Nationally [overall] EVERYONE [of any worth] says its down. OUR OWN INSPECTOR IN HYNDBURN says its DOWN [see last weeks Observer]. The residents of Peel Ward say its DOWN and I know its down and I actually know the figures. ITS DOWN MASSIVELY. Politicians under Labour can check the figures and make the police accountable. IF THERE WAS JUST ONE REASON TO VOTE TORIES OUT AND LABOUR IN IT IS CRIME.

Stupid statements are why the Conservatives are where they are with 170 seats.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorlon24

Education? Top up fees, pricing many students out of further education

Education is from birth to death. I dont know of any top up fees for people under 16. I dont agree with top up fees but do you think the Tories are going to reverse them??!!

I do know class sizes under 30, teaching assistants, pre school, sure start, post school, banning the sale of sports pitches to stop schools just surviving, childrens centres, more teacher training, 600 schools with outside toilets under the Tories in 97 and now school refurbishments at evry 2ndary school in Hyndburn and many primary schools. When you drive around, have a look.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorlon24

Employment? Tell that to the Rover ex-employees

And the Tories care??! Dont be stupid. One factory isnt an argument especially when it was run by 4 crooks fiddling the books, 4 known asset strippers. Nothing to do with workers or unions. Britain has several of the most efficient car plants in europe unionised eleswhere. Its just political rubbish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorlon24

Economy. Even that is starting to slip, now that the Tory legacy is well and truly over.

It was over apparently in 97 when Labour took over. Then in 20012 when you lost again and going downhill with the minimun wage and theres a black hole and year on year Brown overforcasts the economy and we are all doomed.

NOW FOR REALITY. Longest period of economic growth, lowest period of inflation in 40 years, lowest interest rates for 40 years blah blah.. facts you cant argue with. Evry time some Tory says not only will growth decline but the economy will go bust what happens, growth exceeds all forcasts.. you cant argue with that and to do so means another 4 years in opposition because your suddenly not credible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorlon24

Oh, and I won't be voting Tory this time either!

Well the BNP are standing!

cashman · 19-04-2005, 16:14

this one i agree with graham on totally

Margaret Pilkington · 19-04-2005, 16:20

I don't trust any of the parties to run the country........I know that is not the answer.
As time goes on I am finding the arguments that each party put forward increasingly tedious....and it looks like a situation where whoever can cause most discredit to the other parties is going to be the winner.

If I vote at this election, I will choose the candidate with a pin.

vorlon24 · 19-04-2005, 16:23

The comment about crime was taken directly from your post Graham.

Getting a bit hot under the collar are we?!?!!

Tealeaf · 19-04-2005, 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Jones

a die hard Tory. Me and all my mates are happy-ish and will be voting . Michael Howard.

. .

Sorry Graham,

I hope you don't mind me cutting down some of this bumf. I assume its an extract from the junk mail you and your mates have been ramming through peoples' letterboxes over the last week or so, but really, it does get repetitive.

May I ask if you truly do believe that the overall levels of crime are lower now than 8 years ago? If you do, then I suspect you are the only one on this site and that you are in fact, so far away from reality a visit to the psyhiatrist might be in order.It really does not take much common sense to see that crime has been on increasing for years now - under the Tories as well as Labour - and that he only success labour as had in fighting crime is in the manipulation of the crime statistics.

I wonder if you could possibly explain to me - and to the rest of the Accy Web - why, if the economy is in such good shape, it is neccessary for the Chancellor to borrow £35billion in order to maintain his spending levels ? Could you also let us know the number of jobs lost in manufacturing over the last 8 years and the increase in the number of non-front line jobs in the public sector. Could you also indicate the extent of the increase in the number of people claiming disability allowance and then reconcile that with this wonderful new NHS you seem so proud of. While you're at it, could you tell us the number of deaths from MRSA last year, compared to 1997, and while you're at it, you may as well remind us of the numbers of asylum seekers last year compared to 1997.

Cheers

Margaret Pilkington · 19-04-2005, 16:27

How many of the statistics that Labour and the Conservative Parties are using have been fiddled with........?
We know that certain categories of the unemployed have been taken out of the monthly figures........and if we are talking about interest rates.......I think I would rather pay 10% interest on a £70,000 house than 5% on a £200,000 house.
And as for crime.......Charles Clarke tells us that violent crime is up because of the way it is recorded.........well, I for one don't believe him.

pendy · 19-04-2005, 16:32

Graham Jones claims that "in 1997 this country was down and out". That is complete and utter rubbish. In 1997 Labour inherited a very healthy economy, which they have been flogging to bits ever since. Perhaps GJ is not old enough to remember 1979, when Labour had to go cap in hand to the International Monetary Fund, because we were on the rocks. Yes, the same IMF who are now warning Labour that their spending plans are ludicrous and they will need to borrow £35 million.

Labour = higher spending for fewer results, and higher taxes. If you want to pay an extra 10% in tax, I don't.

Bazf · 19-04-2005, 16:48

Just had a conversation with my sister who lives up westend in Ossy, she was robbed the other night while they were asleep, took the gass doors off the conservertory and took anything they could carry including my 9yr old nephews Football kit!!! and his savings bank. I asked her if it happened often and she said all the time, I said I had seen that crime was down in Hyndburn and after she stopped laughing she said she had not known it as bad as it is now. Seems someones idea of less crime is not everyones.