Can We Ever Trust The Russians? - Page 4

mani · 03-12-2006, 22:23

how do u know they are?

sure there's disillusioned people who wud much rather iran b in their vision but wudnt there be disillusioned people to that too?

the west did install a leader it favoured back in the 70's 80's there - but the ppl decided otherwise and toppled the regime. if they were that unhappy they wud topple this one too - iran's regime isnt what saddam hussain did durin his reign

steeljack · 03-12-2006, 22:39

Bullseyebarb ........I am writing this as one of your fellow countrymen .......It's not surprising to me one bit ,that the general feeling on this thread is showing a bit of "anti" americanism , and who can be trusted more the Russians or the Americans , consider .....prior to Sept 11 it was possible to go into many Irish American bars in NYC, Boston and San Francisco and come across fund-raisers for the IRA , funds which were used to buy bombs to blow up British city centers, killing and maiming, women and children , succesive British Govts. appealed to The U S Govt to try to stop this all with no action , it was only after 9/11 that the open invitation to Irish Republican leaders to have lunch at the White House on St. Patricks Day was withdrawn .....so lets not be so critical of folks who don't have as much faith in our Govt. as you seem to have ,
Maybe the idea of exporting democracy is a good idea , I seem to remember that Iran was a secular democracy during the 50s (under Prime Minister Mossedeq) until it was overturned during a CIA sponsered coup which re-installed the Shah, any wonder the Iranians distrust the U S, another fine example of exporting democracy comes to mind , remember a country called Rhodesia, it used to export millions of tons of excess foodstuffs every year, not the case these days is it .

Ianto.W. · 04-12-2006, 01:12

Quote:

steeljack, .so lets not be so critical of folks who don't have as much faith in our Govt. as you seem to have ,

Well said steeljack, lest we forget which side our bread was always well buttered, the choice is 'Hobsons' Mani, if you seek to be an apologist for mediaeval tinpot regimes such as 'Iran',
and the likes of them, maybee a change of address is in order.This thread is about the cruel murder of a Russian political refugee in our back yard, not an anti Amercan platform for the non believers!

WillowTheWhisp · 04-12-2006, 07:55

Let's face it, none of us really knows what goes on behind closed doors in our own country let alone any other. We may like to think we do and look at all the conspiracy theories about cover-ups.

As a British citizen I don't think I've anything to fear from Russia, if I was a Russian dissident with an axe to grind that might be a different kettle of fish - mind you it's not exactly unheard of in this country either for people to be mysteriously bumped off is it?

Ianto.W. · 04-12-2006, 13:32

Quote:

willowthewhisp, As a British citizen I don't think I've anything to fear from Russia,

Whinston Churchill would not have agreed with you willow, the Metropolitan Police Force are sending 10 police officers to Moscow to follow the 'radiation' trail, this is only another cosmetic exercise to see that justice seems to be done. That pig that just flew past my window has more chance of solving this one.

cashman · 04-12-2006, 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ianto.W.

Whinston Churchill would not have agreed with you willow, the Metropolitan Police Force are sending 10 police officers to Moscow to follow the 'radiation' trail, this is only another cosmetic exercise to see that justice seems to be done. That pig that just flew past my window has more chance of solving this one.

well said ianto.w. and even the pig wont solve it.

WillowTheWhisp · 04-12-2006, 16:07

Yebbut Winston Churchill didn't live in 2006 did he?

Billcat · 04-12-2006, 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by steeljack

Maybe the idea of exporting democracy is a good idea , I seem to remember that Iran was a secular democracy during the 50s (under Prime Minister Mossedeq) until it was overturned during a CIA sponsered coup which re-installed the Shah, any wonder the Iranians distrust the U S,

Yup, regime change sure seems to work well! Civil war in Iraq, and a lovely Islamist government in Iran.

Seems to me that the US did best in the countries where someone else (the USSR) had caused regime change - Poland, Hungary, etc.! Small wonder - folks don't like foreign powers messing with their governments.

Probably the best way to export democracy is to do our best to live up to the ideals expressed in our governing documents and show the world how well democracy works here.

Ianto.W. · 04-12-2006, 21:26

Quote:

willowthewhisp, Yebbut Winston Churchill didn't live in 2006 did he?

What a shame he did not, Winston feared the Russians, there is a saying keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer. If you for one second think the Russians will do you any favours think again.

bullseyebarb · 06-12-2006, 21:59

[quote=steeljack;344800].....so lets not be so critical of folks who don't have as much faith in our Govt. as you seem to have, (quote)

"Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one." Thomas Paine.

Since you are the chap who is anxious for socialized medicine to take root in the U.S., I think you have a lot more faith in government than I do.

I have never been keen on foreign intervention. However, it's a fact of life that every country in the world puts its own national interests first.

I think there are many things the U.S. government can do to support democratic movements around the world. We've done it before and should be doing it now.

Irish-Americans would have found a way to supply the IRA with cash no matter what. You aren't blaming the U.S. for conditions in Zimbabwe as well, are you?

cashman · 06-12-2006, 23:49

[QUOTE=bullseyebarb;346076]

Quote:

Originally Posted by steeljack

.....so lets not be so critical of folks who don't have as much faith in our Govt. as you seem to have, (quote)

Irish-Americans would have found a way to supply the IRA with cash no matter what. You aren't blaming the U.S. for conditions in Zimbabwe as well, are you?

so that justifies ignoring it then?

Ianto.W. · 07-12-2006, 20:08

The poor man has been buried in a sealed double lead lined coffin, what torments Mr Litvinenko had to endure I will leave to your imagination, the restaurant stays closed "their is no danger to the general public", according to news reports only a short painfull death by radiation!

SPUGGIE J · 07-12-2006, 20:17

Now they say the Sushi Bar is safe and the deed was done at a hotel. What next will surface?

Ianto.W. · 07-12-2006, 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPUGGIE J

Now they say the Sushi Bar is safe and the deed was done at a hotel. What next will surface?

Would you risk a bit of raw fish Spuggie?

cashman · 08-12-2006, 00:29

lastest report out of moscow, one of the guys who met with litvenko is in a coma! just wondered if its the main guy scotland yard want to interview? wouldn,t surprise me.