Ched Evans

hyndburner · 05-01-2015, 10:59

(If this belongs in General Sport, then the moderators may well wish to move it. However, since it goes beyond sport to cover the wider question of the rehabilitation of offenders, it probably belongs in General Chat)

Should Ched Evans be allowed to sign a contract for a senior football team? The answer must be a resounding No. In the eyes of the law he is a convicted offender, and as a senior footballer would be seen as a representative of the supporters of the club, male and female, and a role model for young fans.

Yes, convicted offenders should be given a chance of rehabilitation, but that means being given employment in a job that enables them to rebuild their lives and their self esteem - not in a high profile public role. Like it or not, rehabilitation means starting low and working to build yourself up.

He claims he is innocent, but that can carry no weight as long as the conviction is in place. If his appeal is successful and he is declared innocent, that puts a completely different complexion on the matter.

But until that happens, he should keep his head down and avoid publicity.

DtheP47 · 05-01-2015, 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyndburner

In the eyes of the law he is a convicted offender, and as a senior footballer would be seen as a representative of the supporters of the club, male and female, and a role model for young fans.

.

Footballers as a role model, give over hyndburner. Is that where society is headed?
Endemic racial abusers
Hiring OAP prostitutes
Bonking their sister in law
Shooting a youth team player with an air rifle.
Betting scandals
Deliberately setting out to break a fellow professionals leg and bragging about it in his biography.
And I haven't mentioned Joey Barton yet !!!

Margaret Pilkington · 05-01-2015, 12:56

I think that many young people do look up to footballers and try to be like them.......so whether you like it or not they ARE influential in their behaviour.
What Ched Evans did was to take advantage of a girl who could not give consent to a sexual act because she was intoxicated.....and he and his friend thought it would be OK to take advantage of the situation.......he was found guilty.
He has expressed no remorse for what he did.....He has denigrated the girl and called her seven kinds of blackguard, when what she did wrong was to get so drunk she had no control of herself......that does not give any man free rein to do anything he wants.
So, while I think that rehabilitation after prison is admirable.....his rehabilitation should be well away from the public gaze and those young enough and daft enough to think he is a fine chap.....and use him as a role model.

Gordon Booth · 05-01-2015, 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyndburner

Should Ched Evans be allowed to sign a contract for a senior football team? The answer must be a resounding No. In the eyes of the law he is a convicted offender, and as a senior footballer would be seen as a representative of the supporters of the club, male and female, and a role model for young fans.

Yes, convicted offenders should be given a chance of rehabilitation, but that means being given employment in a job that enables them to rebuild their lives and their self esteem - not in a high profile public role. Like it or not, rehabilitation means starting low and working to build yourself up.

He claims he is innocent, but that can carry no weight as long as the conviction is in place. If his appeal is successful and he is declared innocent, that puts a completely different complexion on the matter.

But until that happens, he should keep his head down and avoid publicity.

I don't agree.

He is an example to younger fans- that if you are convicted of rape you spend at least two and a half years in prison, you'll be on the sex offenders list, your career will be ruined and you'll struggle to find work. Your family life is probably also ruined. So think hard!
He's served his time, he's a footballer, what else can he do? Probably nothing, like most footballers. Let him live on benefits at our expense?
A high profile public role? He's a footballer for heavens sake, not an Archbishop or Prime Minister.
Role model? For what? Being another overpaid, overindulged footballer? The lives they lead can't inspire our young ones to much more than that.
Let him try to get on with the rest of his life, he's made a mess of it so far.

cashman · 05-01-2015, 13:11

I agree 100% with Margaret.P. as for what else can he do Gordon, he can be a labourer or summat, Not in the public eye by any means, Hes made a mess of his life so far yeh say, well sod the victims is also what yer saying imho.

Accyexplorer · 05-01-2015, 13:12

I don't really care for over paid drama queens kicking a inflated pigskin up and down a expensive lawn......imo he's a convicted, unapologetic (sex) beast and as such shouldn't be let anywhere near football again.

Big Dave · 05-01-2015, 14:30

Imo he has served his time, he still insists he didn't do what he was supposed to have done, only he (and his supposed victim) know the answer to that, If he was a shop worker would he not be allowed to serve(no pun intended) female customers or any trade
where he may come into contact with women, he happens to be a footballer by trade and should be allowed to return to it.

Rowlf · 05-01-2015, 17:02

I don't think he should be in the public eye i.e. playing football for a league side. I heard on the radio that the sponsors of the club that thought of signing him said they will pull out if he signs. I know he is not the first footballer to go to jail and that some have played again afterwards but youngsters do look up to these folk and I do not think someone with a criminal record is a fit role model.

Margaret Pilkington · 05-01-2015, 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Dave

Imo he has served his time, he still insists he didn't do what he was supposed to have done, only he (and his supposed victim) know the answer to that, If he was a shop worker would he not be allowed to serve(no pun intended) female customers or any trade
where he may come into contact with women, he happens to be a footballer by trade and should be allowed to return to it.

He may have spent some time in prison, but I was under the impression that he was released early on licence.
If he was a shop worker he would not have any influence over young, and impressionable young men who aspire to be like their idols.
He is the author of his own fate.....he threw away his career.
Let him return to football in some other capacity.......or let him find a new trade.
While in prison he could have learned some other skill which would have been served him on his release.
He is arrogant to think he can just pick up his life where he left off.

Margaret Pilkington · 05-01-2015, 17:33

And as for insisting he didn't do what he was accused of.....in the words of Mandy Rice Davies ' well, he would say that wouldn't he?'

Rowlf · 05-01-2015, 18:15

I agree 100% with you Margaret.

Accyexplorer · 05-01-2015, 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Dave

Imo he has served his time, he still insists he didn't do what he was supposed to have done, only he (and his supposed victim) know the answer to that, If he was a shop worker would he not be allowed to serve(no pun intended) female customers or any trade
where he may come into contact with women, he happens to be a footballer by trade and should be allowed to return to it.

I wonder if you'd be of the same opinion if it was your daughter/loved one he supposedly raped?
Personally,I think 'the beast' should be castrated and shouldn't even be allowed to play for his local pub team let alone be allowed to go back to playing at a professional level.
I wonder if the same amount of effort is being put into his victim so that she can try and gain some sort of normality to her life after her attack.

I also second the "well, he would say that wouldn't he?" comment made by MP.

accyman · 05-01-2015, 19:31

mike tyson is a convicted rapist and he not only went on to box but is currently standing for some sort of poltical position in america

we dont let convicted rapists into teh UK ( well were not meant to ) but this was waved away when tyson wanted to come here

this footballer guy is appealing his conviction but until then he remains a convicted rapist which although is a horrible crime he is entitld to earn a living and football is his living

ya see all these pesky human rights laws getting in the way again.Legality over morality and the legality usually prevails

Margaret Pilkington · 05-01-2015, 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by accyman

mike tyson is a convicted rapist and he not only went on to box but is currently standing for some sort of poltical position in america

we dont let convicted rapists into teh UK ( well were not meant to ) but this was waved away when tyson wanted to come here

this footballer guy is appealing his conviction but until then he remains a convicted rapist which although is a horrible crime he is entitld to earn a living and football is his living

ya see all these pesky human rights laws getting in the way again.Legality over morality and the legality usually prevails

No, football WAS his living......he can do something else. Except he doesn't want to.......he is arrogant enough to think that he is entitled to return to football.
He CHOSE to act in a way the put his career in jeopardy......so he needs to suck it up. He only served half of his sentence.

Eric · 05-01-2015, 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by accyman

ya see all these pesky human rights laws getting in the way again.Legality over morality and the legality usually prevails

I kinda see where you are coming from ... but I don't see the problem with the concept of "human rights" per se, merely its application. I do see a link to political correctness ... in the sense that accusations of sexual assault, particularly if the accused has some sort of "profile," are becoming all too common. Problem is: there is a problem. And it's getting shunted aside all the hype of specific, newsworthy cases. While folks tut-tut in sometimes mock outrage, young women, particularly the vulnerable, suffer sexual assault and exploitation in alarmingly high numbers. If one argues that cases such as this will encourage more victims to come forward ... well it just ain't gonna happen. Only if their complaints are taken seriously by the police will they be willing to take the real risks involved in coming forward. Also, society must see them as victims, not as drunken sluts who were asking for it.

And I have issues with the role model argument. This guy is a, what, second rate soccer player? The real role models for the young are their peers. With a youth culture in which binge drinking is a weekend norm, stuff like this is going to happen without the help of "role models."

The attitudes of men towards women, particularly in their, let's say, sexual availability, have changed somewhat. But not enough. And with males in positions of power, probably not at all. So, while there definitely is a problem, wasting time and energy debating whether or not someone should be able to earn a living kicking a ball around ain't going to solve it.