comunismn V capitalism

[den the menace]

imho there is no difference between the two, looked at from the perspective of the working class (or hard working families as our political masters condesendingly call it). in russia the populace were ruled by a self serving cabal of tyrants, but in capatilism we are ruled by another kind of tyrants, ie those small in numbers but very powerfull people who rule the financial systems of the world, in reality elected governments have very little power over the financial system.

i personally have no leanings either way, but bear in mind all of the above next time you hear some third rate politico telling you how they can change your lives for the better, because unless you control the monetry sytems you cant change anything.

[Mancie]

Ummm ..yeah right on bruvver!

[jambutty]

Originally Posted by den the menace

imho there is no difference between the two, looked at from the perspective of the working class (or hard working families as our political masters condesendingly call it). in russia the populace were ruled by a self serving cabal of tyrants, but in capatilism we are ruled by another kind of tyrants, ie those small in numbers but very powerfull people who rule the financial systems of the world, in reality elected governments have very little power over the financial system.

i personally have no leanings either way, but bear in mind all of the above next time you hear some third rate politico telling you how they can change your lives for the better, because unless you control the monetry sytems you cant change anything.

Theoretical communism is ideal in that everyone is equal. Practical communism is the same except that some people are more equal than others and thus not ideal.

Capitalism is where the few grab as much wealth for themselves as they can and fight tooth and nail, not just to keep it, but to increase it.

[Mancie]

Now there is a problem with this thread.. which is a good "kick off" thread.. the problem is that the Tories on here refuse to admit they are Capitalists... Jambutty has made the lines clear.. what are the likes of Andrewb.. Jaysay..Royboy.. and the rest of the chuckle crew..Capitalists?.. or Tory boy's?

[Gayle]

Theoretical communism is undoubtedly the fairest system - i.e. everyone is equal, earns equal pay and is treated equally - however, it's not in the least bit practical. Without some capitalism companies/individuals don't have the initiative to make money.

Also, clearly some people (whatever job they do) work harder than others. Communism can in some quarters encourage laziness i.e. I'll get paid the same as you whether I work as hard or not!

There has to be some incentive for people to want to work and for people to want to improve their lives - better pay, working conditions, bonuses etc.

However, you're right - Capitalism can be very destructive. Companies developing the best product for the lowest price means low wages for employees and no one wants to be exploited.

I think a balance is ideal - capitalism with some government controls - i.e. the stopping of monopolies etc. It's not too bad in the UK but I suspect there are many other countries around the world that have it better balanced.

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by Gayle

I think a balance is ideal - capitalism with some government controls - i.e. the stopping of monopolies etc. It's not too bad in the UK but I suspect there are many other countries around the world that have it better balanced.

You're right Gayle. Communism is deeply flawed, not because its a bad idea, but because they don't take human nature into account. They think you can change human nature through force, thats why communist countries have such bad rights records and little democracy.

Having a private monopoly would be just as bad as having a state controlled one. The advantages of markets come through competition.

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by andrewb

The advantages of markets come through competition.

And what are the advantages of a private market? we are not talking fruit n veg...the only advantage is to those who are shareholders in the private company..and the policy of that private company will be to give good returns to the share holders.. not good returns to the public.. to the shareholders.. now it's been like that forever.. are you and your poxy pansey Cameron going to change that?

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by Mancie

And what are the advantages of a private market? we are not talking fruit n veg...the only advantage is to those who are shareholders in the private company..and the policy of that private company will be to give good returns to the share holders.. not good returns to the public.. to the shareholders.. now it's been like that forever.. are you and your poxy pansey Cameron going to change that?

Change it to what exactly? If people want to invest in a company then why not?

A brilliant example of competition vs monopoly, be that state or private, is in Hull. Kingston Communications still exists in Hull and BT have no presence. The only broadband provider is Kingston Communications under the name 'Karoo'. There is no competition. The internet is expensive, and slow. The customer service is the worst I have ever experienced and I have been with a lot of broadband providers. There is no incentive to make the service better or cheaper, beause they know people have nowhere else to go.

At home I can switch from many providers, and get the best deal. They constantly lower prices, fast speeds and have good customer services (if you look around), because they know that I could switch quite easily if they were not providing the best.

[Tin Monkey]

What we have to remember is that the Communist 'system' is based on the economic philosophy of Karl Marx, which in turn saw Capitalism as a flawed system.

Marx never intended it to be a blueprint for any kind of society and he certainly was never in support of equality for the masses.

[MargaretR]

Sometimes severe natural disasters can change the type of society.
I refer to the plague which swept through Europe in the middle ages.
In this country half the population were wiped out
and the ones left alive got the chance to work
for whoever offered the best pay and conditions.
So ended the feudal system.

Who knows - 2012 may be remembered for more than the London Olympics

[Less]

I've been a life long Capitalist but these days....

Communism? Yeah I'll buy that!

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Gayle

Theoretical communism is undoubtedly the fairest system - i.e. everyone is equal, earns equal pay and is treated equally - however, it's not in the least bit practical. Without some capitalism companies/individuals don't have the initiative to make money.

Also, clearly some people (whatever job they do) work harder than others. Communism can in some quarters encourage laziness i.e. I'll get paid the same as you whether I work as hard or not!

There has to be some incentive for people to want to work and for people to want to improve their lives - better pay, working conditions, bonuses etc.

However, you're right - Capitalism can be very destructive. Companies developing the best product for the lowest price means low wages for employees and no one wants to be exploited.

I think a balance is ideal - capitalism with some government controls - i.e. the stopping of monopolies etc. It's not too bad in the UK but I suspect there are many other countries around the world that have it better balanced.

Gayle .... you sound like a good old fashioned Canadian Liberal

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Mancie

Now there is a problem with this thread.. which is a good "kick off" thread.. the problem is that the Tories on here refuse to admit they are Capitalists... Jambutty has made the lines clear.. what are the likes of Andrewb.. Jaysay..Royboy.. and the rest of the chuckle crew..Capitalists?.. or Tory boy's?

Capitalist mancie, I bloody wish, I'm as much a Capitalist as you are New Labour I'll swap my litte lot with Tony Blair anyday thank you