Condoms For Children - Page 4

SamF · 18-07-2007, 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancsdave

And of course you will be telling us they know everything there is to know about life so no guidance or advice is needed from adults

I'm sorry to seem harsh, but did you read what I said ?

I said give a full education...

Lilly · 18-07-2007, 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by SamF

And that's so bad ?

How about a young girl being made to keep a child by parents - and not being able to cope

It shouldn't be that the school can let a girl kill a life without a parent's consent but not a headache.If my daughter was planning an abortion I would want to know so I could suppport her through it.I know that some girls are afraid of what their parents would say if they had to inform them of their plans but these girls are under 16 and probably won't cope all that well with a hushed-up abortion either.

SamF · 18-07-2007, 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilly

It shouldn't be that the school can let a girl kill a life without a parent's consent but not a headache.If my daughter was planning an abortion I would want to know so I could suppport her through it.I know that some girls are afraid of what their parents would say if they had to inform them of their plans but these girls are under 16 and probably won't cope all that well with a hushed-up abortion either.

I'm speaking from experience here, an ex girlfriend of mine did have an abortion without her parents knowing (this was before she met me by the way, I didn't get her pregnant) if she had to tell her parents she would now be a mother, her parents hardly did a good job bringing up her and her brother but they would have made her keep the child. For some people a "hushed up" abortion can save two lives - the child's and the mothers. It's all very good saying that you would support your daughter if she got pregnant, but not all parents would and some would "support" their daughter so much it could lead to them keeping a child they did not want.

LancYorkYankee · 18-07-2007, 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

Here’s another old fogey that agrees with your views Margaret Pilkington and WillowTheWhisp.

Late to the thread but please add me to the old (sensable) fogey list as I too say "in a word" NO!

Brian

lettie · 18-07-2007, 16:49

13 year olds may be just children but the youngest lass I have looked after in labour was just 13, she became pregnant at 12.... She wasn't from the stereotypical 'rough' family but from a fairly well to do, supportive family. To hear a 13 year old screaming in labour is not pleasant, neither for her mum nor myself. A free condom and a bit of education on how to use it may have saved her trauma. Labour is bad enough as an adult but to cope with it as a child is horrendous and traumatic.

The youngest lass I have ever looked after with HIV was 16. She caught it on her first sexual contact and we found it because we tested her due to being pregnant. A free condom and education on use may have prevented her a lifetime of antiretroviral drugs, side effects, and AIDS in later life.

Yes, the morals in this country have slipped, but if we can't get them back, and quickly, then we need systems in place to limit the damage.

West Ender · 18-07-2007, 16:58

Abortion is the cure-all, isn't it? It's there if all else fails. Trouble is, it's not quite like that, there is a big difference between the theory and the reality. It sounds fine, when you're very young, get rid of an unwanted child and everything will be all right. What you have to find out is that it's not a case of popping a pill and, whoops, it's gone. Many abortions involve labour and giving birth, sometimes to a live foetus if the abortion is late. A foetus at only 12 weeks is recognisably a human baby, not a lump of jelly or a blob, and no matter how relieved a person might be to have terminated a pregnancy there is often a real sadness and guilt, even grief, that can lead to depression.

And kids have sex because it's fun? Drinking alcohol can be fun but sometimes it can lead to disaster. Driving a car is pretty much the same. It needs to be handled with responsibility and a level of maturity then it can be very pleasant and enhance your life quality. Sex is no different in that respect, it's unsafe in immature hands. Of course it's fun, but it's so much more so when it's between 2 people who love and respect each other and have the maturity to know it has implications of reponsibility.

Yours,

The oldest fogey on the forum.

jambutty · 18-07-2007, 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by West Ender

The oldest fogey on the forum.

Sorry West Ender but that honour goes to TC with me at 70 a close second.

panther · 18-07-2007, 17:07

wonder who is the youngest then?

West Ender · 18-07-2007, 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

Sorry West Ender but that honour goes to TC with me at 70 a close second.

I don't mean in years, I mean in "fogeyism".

jambutty · 18-07-2007, 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by West Ender

I don't mean in years, I mean in "fogeyism".

It would have been helpful if you put what you meant.

Then again, since when did a woman say what she means?

West Ender · 18-07-2007, 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

It would have been helpful if you put what you meant.

Then again, since when did a woman say what she means?

Don't be facetious. And I mean that.

WillowTheWhisp · 18-07-2007, 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by lettie

13 year olds may be just children but the youngest lass I have looked after in labour was just 13, she became pregnant at 12.... She wasn't from the stereotypical 'rough' family but from a fairly well to do, supportive family. To hear a 13 year old screaming in labour is not pleasant, neither for her mum nor myself. A free condom and a bit of education on how to use it may have saved her trauma. Labour is bad enough as an adult but to cope with it as a child is horrendous and traumatic.

Two thoughts have just come to my mind - the first being that you can educate a child not to have sex and yet they go ahead and do it so what makes us think that we can educate them to use a condom and they will? If the boy doesn't want to is the girl going to insist? Do they even stop to think about condom in the heat of the moment?

My second thought is, if educating them isn't working then maybe they should see live action film of the 13 year old screaming in agony through labour and birth. Maybe that would put them off.

As WestEnder says we don't condone 13 year old drivers or 13 year olds drinking and smoking so why should we condone underage sex?

Eric · 18-07-2007, 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Some maybe, but not all, and those that do under the age of sixteen are breaking the law.

Then perhaps the law is wrong. Also probably a convenient and lazy way with dealing with a problem, shoving it under the rug so to speak. And the root problem is complex. Perhaps it is more effective to deal with the consequences of teen sex .... unwanted pregnancy, STDs, etc. ... and then work on the more fundamental issues that seem to be concerning people .... which seems to be that young people have values which are different from those with which we were raised. Perhaps both groups have to accomodate some changes. In Canada, the age of consent is 14, not sixteen. And of course, our temporary and minority conservative govt. wishes to raise it to 16. But that does not address the problem that there is little uniformity among teens. The frequency with which young people are having sex is greater among First Nations people ... as are the suicide and alcoholism rates. Obviously there is something other than kids wanting to screw at issue. It is a mistake to focus on the sexual aspect of a very complex issue.

Back in the 70s, at the time our govt. was legalizing homosexuality, our PM, Pierre Trudeau, said that the state has no right to determine what goes on in the bedrooms of the nation. (Unless the sex involves rape or young children.) A teenage girl who decides to have sex, may be confused, curious, responding to peer pressure. But she is not a slut as some posts imply, nor should she be a criminal.

Margaret Pilkington · 18-07-2007, 19:25

Willow, can I ask you a question.......are you my twin????? No of course you can't be ...you are much too young! I agree wholeheartedly.
It is a very thorny question...and like Lettie I have been on the sharp end of some teen pregnancies.......I still think that while we give out condoms it is as if we are giving permission for illegal sexual activity to take place......and the gender doesn't matter...boy or girl should be taught that they should not be having sex....and if they are then what they are doing is illegal...and the root causes as to why these Children are indulging in sexual activity should be sought......and while SamF may believe that the majority of the children think it is fun, for many of them it actually isn't because it isn't part of a loving/meaningful relationship...it is a coercion of one party by the other to experiment.

Margaret Pilkington · 18-07-2007, 19:37

And Eric you are spot on when you say that is a very complex issue...which is why the measures which have been employed so far, have had abysmal results.
We need to look at the reasons why some children (because however you slice it that is what they are)feel the need to seek solace in inappropriate sexual activity....is it because they aren't getting on with their parents? Is it purely because they want to get rid of the perceived stigma of virginity (like if you haven't had sex by 14 you must be seriously ugly, weird or both...and that has got to be a self esteem issue)...is it because they want to get pregnant, to have something that will love them unconditionally - for that you get them a puppy - except of course no benefits and council flat.
Oh, it seems that the reasons are legion......I quite frankly admit that I don't have the answer....but I know I would want a 13 year old of mine to come to me with any questions about sexuality...starting an adult based relationship....and I would have to be seriously convinced that the child knew the implications, consequences and responsibilities of their actions.