Conservative Parliamentary Selection - Page 13

garinda · 01-03-2010, 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

agree with what yer saying, but having selected him twice before n he did not win, perhaps they thought you lot were clueless?

Don't be so negative.

Three's a lucky number for some people.

jaysay · 01-03-2010, 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

If there's so much anger locally, because of the imposed candidate list, has it not been suggested that your preferred candidate stands as an independent Conservative candidate, or would that mean he'd lose his seat as a councillor/county councillor?

that would be counter productive, but they wouldn't lose their seat, just go independent

jaysay · 01-03-2010, 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

agree with what yer saying, but having selected him twice before n he did not win, perhaps they thought you lot were clueless?

No cashy because they ratified the selections

Gayle · 01-03-2010, 16:21

But the times that PB lost in the past where when there was a strong Labour Government with strong support - the odds are that ANY Tory candidate would have lost. The situation is different now and the chances of Tories picking up seats like Hyndburn has increased.

shillelagh · 01-03-2010, 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

If there's so much anger locally, because of the imposed candidate list, has it not been suggested that your preferred candidate stands as an independent Conservative candidate, or would that mean he'd lose his seat as a councillor/county councillor?

i dont think he'd lose his seat on the council or county council but he would have to resign from the conservative party ... to stand as an independent .. but doing so means he wouldnt be leader of the council any more ... as it is the conservatives in control .. also he'd have to do all his leafleting and canvassing etc without backing from the conservatives ..he'd have to pay for everything himself ...

garinda · 01-03-2010, 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

that would be counter productive, but they wouldn't lose their seat, just go independent

If you stood as an independent, against the candidate chosen for you, would you not have to leave the Conservative party?

It's a similar scenario to when Livingstone stood against the offical Labour candidate Dobson, in the first Mayor of London election, and was forced to leave the party.

Still if you're not keen it probably won't be happening, which is a pity for us non-partisan observers to the hurly-burly of political life.

garinda · 01-03-2010, 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by shillelagh

i dont think he'd lose his seat on the council or county council but he would have to resign from the conservative party ... to stand as an independent .. but doing so means he wouldnt be leader of the council any more ... as it is the conservatives in control .. also he'd have to do all his leafleting and canvassing etc without backing from the conservatives ..he'd have to pay for everything himself ...

You're right.

It's like changing party mid-term, which has happened locally and nationally.

Should be made illegal, and a by-election should be forced, at the cost of the dithering turn-coat.

jaysay · 01-03-2010, 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

If you stood as an independent, against the candidate chosen for you, would you not have to leave the Conservative party?

It's a similar scenario to when Livingstone stood against the official Labour candidate Dobson, in the first Mayor of London election, and was forced to leave the party.

Still if you're not keen it probably won't be happening, which is a pity for us non-partisan observers to the hurly-burly of political life.

Just commenting on the HBC and LCC aspect Rindi, if PB was to stand at the general (which he won't) he would have to be independent and not able to even use independent Conservative

jaysay · 01-03-2010, 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

But the times that PB lost in the past where when there was a strong Labour Government with strong support - the odds are that ANY Tory candidate would have lost. The situation is different now and the chances of Tories picking up seats like Hyndburn has increased.

I point lost on the likes of Rindi

garinda · 01-03-2010, 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

But the times that PB lost in the past where when there was a strong Labour Government with strong support - the odds are that ANY Tory candidate would have lost. The situation is different now and the chances of Tories picking up seats like Hyndburn has increased.

Which must make it even more frustrating for the local party, that they can't have their candidate of choice.

If I was a member of the local party I'd be tempted to urge the candidate to stand as an independent Conservatives, and to cock a snoop to the grandees down at CCO.

It'd make them sit up and notice more than tearing up party membership cards.

Gayle · 01-03-2010, 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Which must make it even more frustrating for the local party, that they can't have their candidate of choice.

If I was a member of the local party I'd be tempted to urge the candidate to stand as an independent Conservatives, and to cock a snoop to the grandees down at CCO.

It'd make them sit up and notice more than tearing up party membership cards.

The problem with that is that he would have to give up his Leadership of the Conservative Party in Hyndburn, plus Leadership of the Council, plus the support of the Conservative party at both HBC and LCC level. Plus, he's standing for local election this year, so would not be able to stand as a Conservative for HBC but as an Independent for MP. Whilst I think it would make it an interesting battle, I really don't think any sane politician would give up all those things just to make a point.

garinda · 01-03-2010, 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

I point lost on the likes of Rindi

When Ken Hargeaves lost to Greg Pope in 1992 he had 21,082 votes/ 36% of the vote.

When Cllr. Britcliffe first lost in 1997, he polled 15,383, and the percentage of the votes cast fell to 23%.

Perhaps the clues were already there.

garinda · 01-03-2010, 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

The problem with that is that he would have to give up his Leadership of the Conservative Party in Hyndburn, plus Leadership of the Council, plus the support of the Conservative party at both HBC and LCC level. Plus, he's standing for local election this year, so would not be able to stand as a Conservative for HBC but as an Independent for MP. Whilst I think it would make it an interesting battle, I really don't think any sane politician would give up all those things just to make a point.

But according to good sources he has the unswerving loyalty of the local Conservative party, who are aghast and angry at having their wishes ignored, and having an imposed candidate list thrust upon them.

Personally I'd be urging a grassroot rebellion, and making sure that CCO understood that democracy should extend right down to the outer provinces...but perhaps I have more strength in my convictions, when it comes to knowing the principles of what's right and wrong.

Gayle · 01-03-2010, 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

When Ken Hargeaves lost to Greg Pope in 1992 he had 21,082 votes/ 36% of the vote.

When Cllr. Britcliffe first lost in 1997, he polled 15,383, and the percentage of the votes cast fell to 23%.

Perhaps the clues were already there.

I'm not sure that's a valid argument Garinda. In 1992, Greg beat Ken but he was just gaining the seat back and won it by over 5,000 votes. In 1997, it was the year of the landslide Labour victory up and down the country so naturally Conservatives lost ground in Hyndburn as well. Again, I think that would have happened whoever the Tories had put up.

garinda · 01-03-2010, 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

[=garinda]

When Ken Hargeaves lost to Greg Pope in 1992 he had 21,082 votes/ 36% of the vote.

When Cllr. Britcliffe first lost in 1997, he polled 15,383, and the percentage of the votes cast fell to 23%.

Perhaps the clues were already there.

[/garinda]

I'm not sure that's a valid argument Garinda. In 1992, Greg beat Ken but he was just gaining the seat back and won it by over 5,000 votes. In 1997, it was the year of the landslide Labour victory up and down the country so naturally Conservatives lost ground in Hyndburn as well. Again, I think that would have happened whoever the Tories had put up.

Trust me, it's a very valid argument.

Greg Pope bucked the trend in '92, when we still had an unpopular pre-New Labour Labour party, and a successfully re-elected Conservative government.