Conserving energy?

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by Gayle

Sorry Willow but your maths are a bit wrong or may be the article that you've read it from has been a bit misleading. They have added in the factor of the additional purchase cost and they still save £13,250 per year. They will pay for themselves in 10 years.

I'm not quite with you Gayle. Can you explain how they have arrived at this figure?

This is a direct quote from the LT

TWO wind turbines are being set up on Blackpool's promenade to help power the resort's illuminations. In May, a third will join the pair, which cost £147,000 each, and together it is hoped they will cut £13,250 from the town's annual energy bill. They will sit on the front close to the Sandcastle Water Park, and are expected to have a 25 year lifespan.

It actually only says 'hoping' to cut the annual bill by £13,250 - o it's even possible they might not save that much, and 'expected' to have a 25 year lifespan. They may possibly not even last 25 years. I don't see how the cost has been factored in to the projected savings. Nevertheless the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. They just don't sound very cost efective.

Originally Posted by entwisi

Theres more to environmental friendly than money. They are reducing teh carbon footprint and greenhouse gases that would have been spewed out by the power station. Also teh 25years is a min expected lifespan, if they carry on for 40 years they are well in credit

Have they taken into account the carbon footprint for creating the windmills and installing them?

I actually like them and think we should have more of them. The only thing that does concern me is that birds apparently fly into them but apart from that I can't understand why people object to seeing them on hillsides because to me they do not look ugly at all as some claim.

[Ber999T]

Off B&Q site.........



The Windsave wind turbine delivers up to 1KW of supplementary energy synchronised and adjusted to supply directly into your household power circuits, using Windsave's unique technology the appliances in the house will absorb energy from the turbine before using grid voltage. This could contribute to a potential energy saving for the average home whilst reducing the household CO2 emissions. Product Features

Brand: Windsave Product Type: Wind Turbines

Additional Information

• This product is not available for self-install
• You will be contacted on purchase of this item regarding a survey pre-installation
• Survey required pre-installation
• Planning permission will be required - please check with you local council prior to purchase
• AC Input (Mains): 230 Volts (nominal) ac, @ 50Hz
• Power Input (Mains): 6 Watt (Power consumption of the Plug n Save ™ unit in "standby" mode)
• Rated Power Output: 1kW @ rated wind speed
• Rated Wind Speed: 12.5m/s
• Cut-in Wind Speed: 3.5 to 5 m/s @ hub height
• Cut-out Wind Speed: 14 m/s@ hub height
• Reference Extreme Wind Speed: 35 m/s @ hub height
• Wind speed figures assume a steady value, as gusts to this figures will not always provide maximum output
• Operating Temperature Range, Generator: - 15C through + 40C at altitudes < 1000m above sea level
• Weight Generator System: 25kgs excluding support pole and brackets
• Weight, Plug n Save ™: 11kgs
• Dimensions - Generator Assembly: 320mm long x 150mm wide x 110mm deep support shaft
• Swept Area, Blade Assembly: 2.4m sq
• Swept Diameter: Blade Assembly: 1.75m
• Dimensions: Plug n Save ™: 535mm long x 315mm wide: 130mm deep
• Noise, Generator System: 52 dBA 5m behind turbine @ 7m/s gusting
• Noise, Generator System: 33 dBA 5m behind turbine @ 5m/s gusting
• Operating Speed Range of Blades: 100 - 900 rpm (useful power output range)

Price £1498.00

[WillowTheWhisp]

We used to have one when we were on a caravan site with no power source. It was incredibly handy for powering TV and fridge and anything else we might want to use. Sold it for £100

At one time we had it fixed to the caravan itself but it used to rock like billy-oh in windy weather so we rigged up a frame cemented into the ground and connected it to that. The was a job and a half dismantling when we sold it.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

I'm not quite with you Gayle. Can you explain how they have arrived at this figure?

This is a direct quote from the LT
It actually only says 'hoping' to cut the annual bill by £13,250 - o it's even possible they might not save that much, and 'expected' to have a 25 year lifespan. They may possibly not even last 25 years. I don't see how the cost has been factored in to the projected savings. Nevertheless the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. They just don't sound very cost efective.

What they're saying is that the normal cost of the energy bills is x, the cost of the energy bill plus the cost of the windmills is y and y is £13,250 less than x spread over 10 years.

[Eric]

I don't know if one can put a dollar value on the future of the planet. I have an uneasy feeling ... not a conspiracy theory ... that the Earth is in worse shape than we know. Its such a huge, complex system that much of what we know may be little more than educated guesswork. I find that many, no, most people I know are concerned enough to be doing something about it. No one complains about the chore of sorting garbage for recycling any more. I believe that we have run out, or are fast running out of options. I try in little, undramatic ways, to conserve. I drive my car as little as possible. I have the advantage of living downtown. I can walk to the stores, the beer store, the liquor store (oops, a revelation of my lifestyle), the lake etc. In summer I ride my motorcycle. I can pack a collapsible fishing rod, camera, binoculars, munchies in my saddlebags. I even have room for a tent and can strap on a sleeping bag. Only if I have to go a long distance do I drive my big gas guzzling Caddie. To look for a quick techno fix is, I believe to look in the wrong direction. We should look inwards, modify our values, stop thinking of our wants as needs. We do have the opportunity to undo some, though unfortunately not all, of the damage we have done.

Radix mallorum cupiditas est: the root of all evil is greed. And there is nothing more evil than destroying this beautiful planet of ours.

[entwisi]

The big issue is that we don't actually know its us thats causing a change in the earths climate. We do know that it goes through cycles of hot and cold and is never stable for long(in terms of the overall lifespan of the planet). If it was then we would never have seen the Ice Age or come out of it for that matter.


We do know that over millions of years Earth will be getting hotter and hotter as our sun expands untill it eventually consumes Earth. then at some future point it will collapse inwards to becaome a dwarf star.


I'm not saying that we shouldn't make some efforts as just as we can't prove it is us we can't prove it isn't. However without the Americans, Chinese and Indians joining in the UK is a tiny crumb of a very big cake. Insignificant in all our efforts.

[SPUGGIE J]

I do my bit but agree with Entwisi the climate cycles could be just a bigger factor. Because it scares people whats happening they are looking for an easy answer. Maybe we are helping increase the rate of a natural cycle but that dosnt mean its 100% human guilt.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by entwisi

you can do a similar thing here where your meter runs backwards

You most certainly can but I don't think this is the right place to talk about that

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by Gayle

What they're saying is that the normal cost of the energy bills is x, the cost of the energy bill plus the cost of the windmills is y and y is £13,250 less than x spread over 10 years.

I'm more confused now Gayle. Where did the 10 years come into it?

Unfortunately we don't know the normal cost of the bills all we do know is the claim that the bills will be cut by £13,250 per year.
The windmills cost £147,000 each.
Three of them will cost £441,000

So, are you working backwards with those figures and a 25 year plan? They would have to reduce the bill by an actual £30,890 per year over 25 years or £57,350 per year over 10 years to make a net saving of £13,250 per year and that's still not taking into account any maintenance costs.

[shillelagh]

20.Electricity consumed totals 960,000 units, at an approximate cost of £50,000. Anyone got a 10p for the meter!

Can you imagine that leccy bill!!!!


5.The Blackpool Illuminations will shine non-stop for 66 nights.

They dont stop on all night. They turned them off went through one year with a bloke i was seeing at that time and we went through them once and then coming back as we passed under them they turned them off. That was about 3am.

[bullseyebarb]

Could I interrupt here on a related subject? 350 years of unique British tradition and crafts to be consigned to history due to the EU's ban on mercury in barometers. Mind you, they only use 70 lbs of mercury annually, compared to 4 tons placed in 61 million fluorescent tubes used in the U.K.......consumption set to multiply as sales of compact fluorescent lights increase. Insanity.

Eric should get in touch with Billcat. A match made in heaven.

And so the descent into hell continues.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb

Could I interrupt here on a related subject? 350 years of unique British tradition and crafts to be consigned to history due to the EU's ban on mercury in barometers. Mind you, they only use 70 lbs of mercury annually, compared to 4 tons placed in 61 million fluorescent tubes used in the U.K.......consumption set to multiply as sales of compact fluorescent lights increase. Insanity.

Eric should get in touch with Billcat. A match made in heaven.

And so the descent into hell continues.

As we descend into hell, it is so touching that you spare me a thought

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

I'm more confused now Gayle. Where did the 10 years come into it?

Unfortunately we don't know the normal cost of the bills all we do know is the claim that the bills will be cut by £13,250 per year.
The windmills cost £147,000 each.
Three of them will cost £441,000

Yes, but they are taking into account the cost of purchasing them offset against the cost of savings and the amount is £13,250 less than the cost of electicity without them.

So actually we do know the cost of electicity over ten years - £573,500 - based on the fact that they reckon they will break even in 10 years time. Anything after that is a bonus.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Where did it say 10 years Gayle? Have I missed something?

[Gayle]

http://www.blackpooltoday.co.uk/View...icleID=1946361

It says they will break even in 10 years in this article.

Actually, my maths are off a bit but the principle is there.