Corona Virus

[dotti34]

I am normally an optimist and although I might sound pessimistic regarding the various Coronavirus vaccines in fact I am being a realist and taking a very cautious approach. I would very much like to think that the vaccines will prove to be most effective in beating the virus, but there are a number of points about the vaccine that worry me, some of which (but not all) are as follows:

(1) Although the vaccine will prevent a person getting ill it is possible that person might still carry the virus and be contagious to others after receiving it. Will being vaccinated give a sort of false sense of security in people – or will they do the right thing and continue to wear masks and practice social distancing where appropriate? I doubt it.
(2) As far as I can find out, the BNT vaccine in the UK and US has only received ‘emergency approval’ meaning that stage 3 trials have not been finished yet, but the authorities have decided that the demand is too great to wait. Is this really a good idea?
(3) Most studies show that there have been more safety problems in the past with drugs that have been fast-tracked by the FDA than with drugs approved by its usual process. Is there any guarantee this won’t apply with this very fast-tracked vaccine?
(4) No information is available about how long immunity will last and how common or severe any side effects will be, or even how often vaccinations will need to be administered.

Vaccinations will start here in Australia in March – our Prime Minister said that we have to be careful that we dot all the i’s and cross all the t’s to ensure the vaccine is safe. We will be waiting and watching, at least for any short-term effects, though this still won’t answer what any long-term effects might be – all eyes from here will be on the UK and US. I am still not inclined to hold out my arm for the jab - once jabbed you can't be un-jabbed.

[monkey hanger]

they have already started to move the goalposts on the pfiser vaccine putting back the second jab to get people the first. plus the information on the safeness you have after the the first vaccine you have has changed to a more positive protection. just trust these people less and less i,m afraid.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Dorothy you have posed some interesting questions there.

1) not only are they not sure about the vaccination preventing transmission, they really cannot guarantee that it will stop you from getting it...but tell us that those who are vaccinated ‘get less sick’...so not much comfort there.
I think it will give a false sense of security and this is being fostered by the media hype to get people to have the jab...music to the ears of big Pharma.

2) Emergency approval of this vaccines really means that those who take the jab are used as unpaid guinea pigs for the Pharma companies...and not only that, if unexpected or unwanted side effects arise then the Pharma companies(who by the way are as rich as Croesus) have NO liability whatsoever.
And before anyone tells me that there is a government fund for vaccine damaged
individuals...yes, I DO know this.
I also know that is nigh impossible to squeeze this fund for any money. And that anyone who is not successful is usually left with a ginormous legal bill.

3) yes I concur with this...and even when drugs have gone through what we are told is rigorous testing, the big Pharma companies are only judged on their three best studies....any adverse events are usually buried...they do not have to publish results of ALL studies.

4) no information on the length of the immunity conferred is available....that is because they do not know....or if they do it has not been published because it is not in their(Pharma companies) interest.
If it is going to be needed every six months then we are in the brown smelly stuff.
A million first doses have been administered and the second doses have been deferred so that more first doses can be given....now how do we know if this delay will mean that the jab is less effective....seeing as the developers recommendations were for two doses, 21 days apart.
If this is what the drug company have worked on....and not a three month delay for a second dose...then this is a further worry(or it is for those who are worried about the vaccine anyway).

I had sort of retired from this thread....I felt that I had said all that I wanted to say...sometimes many times over.
I have only returned to put my own two pennorth to your post Dorothy.....and will now retreat into the shadows to watch and wait.
Like you, I am a thinking realist who wishes to take responsibility for my own actions, but I will not act to make the government of the day look good I will only act if what they propose is in my interests.
I do not expect anyone out there to be either influenced or to Change their views.
Everyone must make up their own minds using the information that is available...and read between the lines a bit too...because I do not feel that we are being fed the truth.

When things do not add up it is because truth had not been added to the equation.

[monkey hanger]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

4) no information on the length of the immunity conferred is available....that is because they do not know....or if they do it has not been published because it is not in their(Pharma companies) interest.
If it is going to be needed every six months then we are in the brown smelly stuff.
A million first doses have been administered and the second doses have been deferred so that more first doses can be given....now how do we know if this delay will mean that the jab is less effective....seeing as the developers recommendations were for two doses, 21 days apart.
If this is what the drug company have worked on....and not a three month delay for a second dose...then this is a further worry(or it is for those who are worried about the vaccine anyway).



When things do not add up it is because truth had not been added to the equation.

i smell a big rat somewhere in all this. the problem is that so many people just cannot wait to get vaccinated and the government know this. you hear it every minute. once we get vaccinated things will be fine. things have got like womens beauty products to some where many would put anything on their faces if endorsed by some celeb or another. was actually warming slightly to the idea of vaccination, but the recent goal post move has only underlined my previos stance on the idea.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Pfizer Biontech did not test the vaccine for administration with such a long gap between doses, so really I think that would invalidate the emergency use authorisation as it is NOT being used in accordance with manufacturers guidelines or test results.

[dotti34]

Margaret, thank you for giving your thought-provoking comments to my concerns. There are certainly many questions that should be answered but information that we can trust is sadly lacking to my way of thinking.

I can’t understand why old people in nursing homes are being given the vaccine before it is being offered to the general public. Isn’t the idea of widespread vaccination intended to be to not only stop people from getting the virus but also to stop it spreading, so shouldn’t this be first offered to those who are out and about, mixing with others, with the hope this WILL stop the spread. Those old people in nursing homes sadly might be the most vulnerable but they don’t often mix with the wider community.

Sorry, but I really can’t understand the logic of this.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Dorothy that is because there is neither sense nor logic in any of it.
The great Barrington debate has the right ideas in my opinion...and it is to shield the vulnerable and protect the younger members of society by getting them back to normal activities.
These lockdowns(and the one we are currently under is much like the very first lockdown) was instigated with maybe 8 hours notice.

We have now had lockdowns in various levels since the 23rd of March last year.....and they have not done very much.
The current situation with the NHS is a 'winter pressures and covid combined' situation.
I worked on a surgicla ward and every year at this time operations were cancelled and beds given over to medical patients with respiratory ailments...COPD, Bronchitis, pneumonia....and our full beds rarely made the news.

[Exile on Spencer St]

A brilliant summary from Dr.Malcolm Kendrick.
https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/

Dotti, the cynic in me wonders whether the logic is that, if the vaccines are first given to occupants of care homes but then fail to protect or, worse, have serious side-effects, they (politicians, big pharma, and their stooge ‘scientists’) have a ready-made excuse.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Exile, I really like the way this man can strip away all the BS...and cut to the chase.

We are seeing reports in the papers of hospitals being overwhelmed with Covid cases...is this because they are no longer collecting the stats for flu and pneumonia?
Also that some hospitals may have to resort to treating only covid patients...well from my perspective they have already been doing just that...if you have some long term illness that requires regular monitoring then it has been suspended or it has been an unsatisfactory telephone appointment.....how can a surgeon palpate an abdomen over the phone...even a video call does not allow for this.
Can anyone imagine how worrying this is for anyone who has been diagnosed with a life limiting condition, can be?

As for the care homes and vaccines, well it is clear that the powers that be thought these people were disposable when they sent elderly with covid back to care home without notifying staff.

I know that hindsight is 20/20 but anyone with only one functioning brain cell could tell you that this was not a good idea...but then a lot is spoken about the vulnerable, but not much done.

[dotti34]

Margaret and Exile, I am just hoping that what I am thinking in my cynical mind is possibly the reasoning regarding the elderly people being vaccinated before the masses are done is not really why this is being carried out. I hope it is done out of compassion and care and no other reason. Of course you would never get anyone to admit to it even if it was otherwise.

[Margaret Pilkington]

The possibility of the second dose of vaccine being delayed for up to three months has been quashed by GPs.
They have said it is a betrayal of trust.....I am more concerned that they did not say that it was not within the guidelines of the manufacturers instructions....because it had NOT been tested within those parameters.
An even more worrying situation seems to be arising now....another untested, untrialled proposal.
That is that the Astra Zeneca vaccine and the Pfizer vaccine be mixed and matched.
Again this is using vaccines in a way that has not been tested.
The two vaccines are different....Pfizer’s is a Modified messenger RNA vaccine....Astra Zeneca is a recombinant vaccine......and again this is an unknown quantity.
This combination has not been tested for safety or for efficacy....so again the elderly population(disposable....non breeders, just feeders)are being drafted in a lab rats.

This situation does nothing to foster any kind of confidence in either government or the companies that produce the vaccines.
Don’t be surprised if it all ends in tiers(tears-you choose)
They said we could be out of this by Easter...they did not say which year!

[monkey hanger]

[QUOTE=Exile on Spencer St;1248590]A brilliant summary from Dr.Malcolm Kendrick.
https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/

funny how a lot regard people like him as cranks where the ones that more or less follow the government line are experts. even ferguson still keeps gobbing off.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Neil Ferguson has not been right about a single thing in the past. His computer modelling programs are suspect and he will not share them with other academics which has to be something of a worry....if you fail to demonstrate how you came up with the anser you got then maybe there is something funny afoot.

[monkey hanger]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Neil Ferguson has not been right about a single thing in the past. His computer modelling programs are suspect and he will not share them with other academics which has to be something of a worry....if you fail to demonstrate how you came up with the anser you got then maybe there is something funny afoot.

its possible a cart before horse approach where he thinks up an answer he actually wants first and then bang in information to prove his answer. what gets me is that if he was an expert with the opposite approach he would have been outed as some sort of mad super crank before now.

[Margaret Pilkington]

MH... you could be right there.
The real worry is he has never been keen to let other experts in the field(This in itself is unsusual as these academics are usually happy to share their information...they all want the kudos that successful data shows...ah but there's the rub...his data has not been correct in any single thing) see his data to analyse how his assumptions were reached...that has to be a red flag warning.