Corrupt Council ? - Page 3

jaysay · 10-10-2010, 09:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPUGGIE J

Could that not be applied to all colours of politics though? Up here it can be like a playground fight when they disagree. Evens stevens is not always good either.

Your right Spugs was just pointing out the Labour were no different and after being involved in local politics most of my life I'm glad I no longer have any interest what-so-ever, let um get on wi it as far as I'm concerned

JCB · 10-10-2010, 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

Labour were just as undemocratic when last they were in power for 13 years JCB, if not more, a 44 seat majority was never good for democracy and some of the things that went on behind closed doors was unbelievable, which was virtually everything

You are making me all the more disallusioned , Jaysay .

Is the set-up beyond redemption ?

jaysay · 10-10-2010, 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCB

You are making me all the more disallusioned , Jaysay .

Is the set-up beyond redemption ?

Th all point is JCB, irrespective of who controls the council, the opposition will try to pull them to pieces in the public eye, but as Gayle said earlier councillors do work together which is the way it should be, and it sure as hell is better for the people in general, I think like yourself I've been an advocate of political councils but it ain't going to happen anytime soon

Ken Moss · 12-10-2010, 06:42

The illusion seems to be for some people that the Tories and Labour are at each other's throats on a permanent basis and I'm happy to say that this isn't true, in fact committee meetings where no members of the Cabinet are present are usually very productive as the oneupmanship is removed.

The party divisions basically boil down to money at local level and opposition to the way in which it is spent. Currently, the Conservatives are spending our tax money as if it is going out of fashion and there is nothing that Labour can do because the Leader of the Council won't hold full council meetings so that we can vote.

The financial system within the Cabinet has engineered a situation where Peter Britcliffe has given himself £100k to spend on whatever he likes. None of that can be proven to be electioneering but I imagine that Baxenden will be in for a few heavily-publicised handouts before the bye-election.

Expect to see many more Conservative councillors presenting cheques to people in The Observer before the next round of elections. Just remember that it is your taxes that are paying for these donations whilst each of the wards are being told that there is no money for repairs and ungrades to vital services.

Ken Moss · 12-10-2010, 06:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCB

Is the Cabinet statutory , or is it a system created by Hyndburn Council itself ? I have concerns about it within a democracy .

I also have concerns about the Full Council meetings , which I think should be monthly at least , about Emergency Powers , about the power of the Leader , and about the Overview and Scrutiny committees.

You might want to try asking your cousin, one Cllr Dobson.

Cabinet is a system that we have adopted and would work quite well were it not for the man at the top who keeps people in check with the carrot of financially-rewarding positions and the stick of losing them.

I am on the Overview and Scrutiny committee for resources and they are very unforgiving, even those from the Conservative side. The problem is that they barely have influence, let alone power, so any Cabinet decisions can still only be criticised, not changed. They have managed to refine certain policies over the years, however, but it does strongly depend on the whims of the Cabinet.

The only way to reform that is to reform the way that decisions are voted on and this council is not going to kick away the struts which gave it power.

Neil · 12-10-2010, 07:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

The only way to reform that is to reform the way that decisions are voted on and this council is not going to kick away the struts which gave it power.

What will Labour do to reform the way that decisions are voted on if it gets into power?

Why is scrutiny made up of Councillors and not normal people with no axe to grind?

gynn · 12-10-2010, 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil

Why is scrutiny made up of Councillors and not normal people with no axe to grind?

The theory is that Councillors ARE normal people who the electorate have put their trust in. The fact that we consider them to have an axe to grind shows how some of them (not all, Ken!) have abused that trust.

The body that looks into the way individual Councillors behave is the Standards Committee, which is chaired by a person completely independent of the Council. Maybe that body should be given the remit of looking at things like cancelling meetings to suit individual's needs.

Ken Moss · 12-10-2010, 08:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil

What will Labour do to reform the way that decisions are voted on if it gets into power?

Occasionally having full council meetings would by my suggestion.

I'm sorry to have yet another go at Peter Britcliffe but if anyone can defend cancelling full councils between July and December so that no votes can be taken between those times then they are a better man than me.

That is not my idea of democracy, I would venture to call it dictatorship.

Neil · 12-10-2010, 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by gynn

The theory is that Councillors ARE normal people who the electorate have put their trust in.

Theory does not always work in practice though

gynn · 12-10-2010, 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil

Theory does not always work in practice though

Hence the need for some checks and balances, and external review.

At the risk of sounding boring and repetitive, that is why the external auditors are there. If not used, they become worthless.

garinda · 12-10-2010, 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by gynn

Hence the need for some checks and balances, and external review.

That is why the external auditors are there. If not used, they become worthless.

Though I seem to remember when an independent panel recommended expenses increases, they were ignored, and whoppingly increased expenses were awarded, after they'd voted to reward themselves.

gynn · 12-10-2010, 08:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Though I seem to remember when an independent panel recommended expenses increases, they were ignored, and whoppingly increased expenses were awarded, after they'd voted to reward themselves.

But distasteful as that was, the Council acted within the rules of due process. Cancelling meetings to favour one political group rather than another is in a different league.

garinda · 12-10-2010, 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by gynn

But distasteful as that was, the Council acted within the rules of due process. Cancelling meetings to favour one political group rather than another is in a different league.

Independent scrutiny and recommendations, that can be totally ignored, sounds more a complete waste of time, rather than distasteful.

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...and-45105.html

jaysay · 12-10-2010, 09:11

To be quite honest I think that the system of Cabinet run councils was a backward step, the committee system was far better in my eyes were the strength of party was shown by committee make up, but at least all elected members had a say, and decisions could be overturned at full council, all except Planning that is. Okay there are the scrutiny system, but to be quite honest I wouldn't want to be part of any council under this system

JCB · 12-10-2010, 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

You might want to try asking your cousin, one Cllr Dobson.
.

He is not only my cousin , he is also my Godson .

On the rare occasions when I do see him I have better things to talk about than politics , the last time I met him being the exception .