Council again.. - Page 3

jaysay · 21-05-2009, 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonender

Andrew, do you think it is good for local democracy for the opposition councilllors to be given no time to read council papers, which are proposing important changes to the consitution of Hyndburn Council? From your view of the request at last night's meeting, it would appear that you do - so much for freedom of speech and welcome to Peter Britcliffe's totalitarian state.

Its not that long ago that a Labour council didn't even bother with debate it was voted through on the nod, Labour have always had the same idea its alright for us to do things but just let you try it and our toys will come out of the pram big style

andrewb · 21-05-2009, 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by claytonender

Maybe you should read Clare's post again, she stated that it was an amendement to a motion proposed on the night of the meeting. I circulted all the costings to the councillors present but Peter Britcliffe refused to read the costings. As Clare said, in her post, the proposal had been fully costed out by the Finance Director and I am sure Peter Britcliffe had already been informed of our plans. He could have proposed an adjournment to read our report, but as usual he choose to ridicule his opponents. The man is a joke, he twists the truth constantly chooses to ignore the views of the people of Hyndburn -he has abolished the Area Councils in Peel and Barnfield, Church and Milnshaw Spring Hill and Central- without any public consultation. Unfortunately the people of Hyndburn have to live with his inflated ego.

Why did you circulate them on the night and not before so that they could be given serious thought. Did you not think the public should know what is happening in council too? Such hypocrisy. Labour are guilty of the same things you accuse the Conservatives of. People in glass houses..

Can't you just work together instead of constantly trying to trip the Tories up?

jaysay · 21-05-2009, 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb

Why did you circulate them on the night and not before so that they could be given serious thought. Did you not think the public should know what is happening in council too? Such hypocrisy. Labour are guilty of the same things you accuse the Conservatives of. People in glass houses..

Can't you just work together instead of constantly trying to trip the Tories up?

Because Andrew Labour is always right, they're getting on with the job, when they are talking we're safe, its when they stop talking and start doing is when the problems start, aka Blair and Brown

ClarePritchard · 21-05-2009, 15:49

Andrew, I'm not the secretary of the Labour Group, I'm the Deputy Leader. I'm glad you agree that huge financial decisions shouldn't be just put forward at full-council. I trust that you mentioned this to Peter, when, at the last Full-Council we received on our desks as we sat down Peters proposal to spend at total of 400k on the Civic Theatre.

andrewb · 21-05-2009, 16:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClarePritchard

Andrew, I'm not the secretary of the Labour Group, I'm the Deputy Leader. I'm glad you agree that huge financial decisions shouldn't be just put forward at full-council. I trust that you mentioned this to Peter, when, at the last Full-Council we received on our desks as we sat down Peters proposal to spend at total of 400k on the Civic Theatre.

You're missing the point. If you disagree with the fact that he does it, then don't do it yourself or you lose all credibility.

shillelagh · 21-05-2009, 16:40

if one can do it .. then the other can ......

g jones · 21-05-2009, 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb

It's full council tonight. It's at 7:30 normally, if you're interested.

There's a motion on the table by Labour that celebrates 10 years of the minimum wage. It then goes on to say the council should write to David Cameron and express disgust at a 'Conservative proposed' bill which would allow workers to opt out of the minimum wage.

Quite why local politicians wish to waste time on such motions rather than dealing with local issues which they have influence over I don't know. Regardless, is it really necessary to try and make this a party political matter? The bill is not backed by David Cameron, it's not backed by the overwhelming majority of the Conservative parliamentary group, and it's now even been withdrawn.

I expect that if the Conservatives turn around and say 'No we're not going to waste time when everybody knows it's Conservative policy to back the minimum wage', and vote against the motion, Labour will be quoting 'Conservatives vote against minimum wage' in the newspaper and their leaflets! More games...

Andrew. This is the first national debate we have put forward so you're way off the mark. Your Conservatives have put forward 50 or 60 at various meetings in 12 months. You have Cllr Britcliffe have both pressed Greg Pope on early day motions regularly and several campaigns that have no connection to Hyndburn. Do you think you can kid the general public.

I agree, I pretty much always stick to local. I have always thought we do not give up enough time to wider issues that affect Hyndburn. This political debate is healthy and is based on a motion that is relevant to the people of Hyndburn. I think they should be more. Councillor Britcliffe supported the minimum wage but Councillor Collingridge didn't. So it was not petty politics in the end was it?

g jones · 21-05-2009, 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb

Why did you circulate them on the night and not before so that they could be given serious thought. Did you not think the public should know what is happening in council too? Such hypocrisy. Labour are guilty of the same things you accuse the Conservatives of. People in glass houses..

Can't you just work together instead of constantly trying to trip the Tories up?

Do you mean like Cllr Britcliffe does EVERY meeting! Andrew, you are quite frankly a bizarre young man.

g jones · 21-05-2009, 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb

You're missing the point. If you disagree with the fact that he does it, then don't do it yourself or you lose all credibility.

Which numbered excuse is this one Andrew?

andrewb · 21-05-2009, 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones

Do you mean like Cllr Britcliffe does EVERY meeting! Andrew, you are quite frankly a bizarre young man.

In other words: 'They did it, so we're going to do it too!'

Unsurprisingly you still do not get it.

g jones · 21-05-2009, 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb

In other words: 'They did it, so we're going to do it too!'

Unsurprisingly you still do not get it.

I did not say that. I said there has to be a positive reason. We do not have enough debates national/Hyndburn importance.

Why did the Tories bring Post Office Privatisation to Full Council? Don't tell me, that was different? We brought Crown Post Office's against the Government at a EGM. Andrew I have criticised Government policy openly. Would the Tories bring an anti Cameron debates to Council?

Nickelson · 21-05-2009, 22:20

The minimum wage itself is quite ineffective, The people who rely on it are placed within a poverty trap.

I see the politics have started the great AccyWeb division again...

garinda · 21-05-2009, 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickelson

The minimum wage itself is quite ineffective, The people who rely on it are placed within a poverty trap.

To quote from your blog...'All i know is i dont revise enough.'

Perhaps if you looked at the broader picture, or at least supplied evidence to back up your whimsical claims, you might have a better chance of being taken seriously.

You may even revise your opinion as to the merits of the minimum wage.

garinda · 21-05-2009, 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickelson

The minimum wage itself is quite ineffective, The people who rely on it are placed within a poverty trap.

£5.73 is a more preferable bait to have on your trap, than £1.50 per hour say, for the exactly the same work.

Nickelson · 21-05-2009, 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

To quote from your blog...'All i know is i dont revise enough.'

Perhaps if you looked at the broader picture, or at least supplied evidence to back up your whimsical claims, you might have a better chance of being taken seriously.

You may even revise your opinion as to the merits of the minimum wage.

To quote the date from that blog entry ' 20-04-2008 '. I find that 13 months old

.

Hmmm, a person working for minimum wage will generally be in reciept of working tax credits. If that person was to find work decreased from 30 hours to 20 they would have the net income made back up with tax credits. This means that the worker has no incentive to get work back for 30 hours creating a poverty trap.