Council again..

[garinda]

Originally Posted by katex

Oh hek, wasted my breath didn't I ....

If by that you mean do I still believe life is less challenging in full time further education, than the period that follows? Then yes I do.

[katex]

Originally Posted by garinda

If by that you mean do I still believe life is less challenging in full time further education, than the period that follows? Then yes I do.

Everybody creates their own stresses in full time employment Garinda (putting aside the insecurity of a job at the moment). Was just trying to show that not an easy life for most students running alongside part time jobs to sustain a decent income, and they do gain experience that enables them to put forward a decent view on issues we discuss on here.

There was not a day went by when I did not enjoy going to work, and no mean task selling textiles and traveling the length and breadth of the U.K., and looking after my son and my granddaughter for lengthy times. Went to work for a rest ... LOL., however, that is just my own experience.

Just going back to the 'subsidised educational grant'. The loan is subsidised by the tax payers of course, but the pay back does include interest, and statements resemble mortgage statements ... big chunk of interest, small amount off the sum.

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by Garinda

Sadly none of those part time jobs paid well enough to take me past my tax limit, which would have put me on a more equal footing with the rest of the income tax paying population.

I'm just glad that Garinda's class elitism has gone out of the window in today's age. Most people I know don't judge a persons opinions more or less valuable based on their income, whether they're paying 0%, 20% or 40% tax.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by andrewb

I'm just glad that Garinda's class elitism has gone out of the window in today's age. Most people I know don't judge a persons opinions more or less valuable based on their income, whether they're paying 0%, 20% or 40% tax.

You're mixing me up with an American.

I judge people on what they do, and what they say, not wealth.

My considered judgement on what you've recently said and done, sadly hasn't changed.

[MargaretR]

During my trawling into politics today (not my normal scenario - but Hey, I have got my postal vote form today),
I came across mention of an organisation named ' Common Purpose ', now that is a new one on me.

Further delving indicates that it involves and influences Local Government.
.....and from what I have seen so far I am not impressed.
I wonder whether any of our local community charge has been spent on this 'project'

You local gov experts on here might care to delve a bit.
A constructive way to spend a wet and windy afternoon

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by garinda

You're mixing me up with an American.

I judge people on what they do, and what they say, not wealth.

My considered judgement on what you've recently said and done, sadly hasn't changed.

I'm glad you've changed your mind since yesterday:

Originally Posted by Garinda

Sadly none of those part time jobs paid well enough to take me past my tax limit, which would have put me on a more equal footing with the rest of the income tax paying population.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by andrewb

I'm glad you've changed your mind since yesterday:

Having parity with the majority has nothing to do with class, which you mentioned. I didn't. Which I suppose is to be expected from a blindingly loyal Conservative supporter.

If you think life after university will be exactly the same as it is now, you are more woefully naive than I thought.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by katex

students have to sort their own accommodation out sharing rent, council tax, tv licence, gas/fuel bills etc with other people

Council Tax

If you are a full-time student, you may be exempt from paying Council Tax or have your Council Tax bill reduced. Ask at your college or university for proof of your full-time student status to present to your local authority. Part-time students, however, are liable to pay Council Tax.
If you are liable for Council Tax, you may be able to claim Council Tax Benefit if you have a low income, savings of less than £16,000 and are:

• on Income Support or Jobseeker’s Allowance
• a lone parent
• a student couple with one or more children
• disabled

Income Support

You may be able to claim Income Support as a student if:

• you’re aged 16 to 59
• you’re either a lone parent or disabled
• you're not working, or work on average less than 16 hours a week

and:

• you have savings of less than £16,000

Benefits for students with low incomes : HERO

There are of course other advantages students may benefit from, such as cheaper travel, reduced theatre/cinema entry, even cheaper alcohol in some bars and pubs, which aren't available to the greater majority of the general public.

By the way, I'm not saying students shouldn't avail themselves of any discounts or entitlements, but I'm too much of a realist to see these are some of the perks which will be no longer available, once they leave the hallowed halls of academia.

[andrewb]

Nobody is denying that students live for less, nobody is denying that students do less work in the form of a job. There is however no need to patronise, or attempt to undermine somebody who is further educating themselves before starting their long term career.

I know it's a past time for you to pick out a word or two in a post that you disagree with, and ignore the entire argument. You brought in taxation, and claimed that because you were not earning over the tax bracket when you were a student, you were not on an equal footing with the rest of the tax paying population. I said I'm glad the rest of society doesn't appear to think like that, as I don't believe in division of saying somebody is 'more equal' because they pay more taxation.

Garinda, if all you were attempting to do is point out that financially students contribute less to government coffers from taxation, then I know you have the capacity to do that without coming across in the way you do. If indeed you did mean that students opinion matters less because they are discounted then I profoundly disagree.

[garinda]

Nowhere have I posted that 'student's opinions matter less', just that their circumstances are different from the greater majority of the general public.

Naiveity isn't confined to any one group of people, as has been exhibited on this very forum recently.

Though I fear it may be genetic.

[katex]

Sorry Garinda ... you are correct about the Council Tax ... students are exempt .. they just send in their student's certificate. Hopefully, the loan they get for living expenses goes to most of the other cost.

That wasn't where I was going though in this discussion, was trying to say the experience of working and living with five or six other students helps you to work as a team and coming to decisions, compromises, sharing life with other people to make life comfortable. Who has the top shelf in the fridge, etc.,

Anyway, get the impression you had lots of fun in your jobs ... would have loved to have been on the purchasing side, at least you get all the choccies and wine at Christmas ...

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by garinda

Nowhere have I posted that 'student's opinions matter less', just that their circumstances are different from the greater majority of the general public.

You can still infer and come across in the way that I mention, even if you do not directly say 'student's opinions matter less'. I'm sure you understand the difference between the two.

For example, a student on here posted that your O-level was equivalent to a GCSE not a degree as you originally stated. You agreed that HE was correct, and you were wrong. However you still went on to post this patronising statement:

Originally Posted by garinda

I'm lucky enough to have done O-levels, and later a G.C.S.E., after I'd finished my B.A. (Hons.), so I'm probably in a better position than yourself to judge the academic merits and quality of those examinations.

It has an air of elitism that is far beyond it's time.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by katex

Sorry Garinda ... you are correct about the Council Tax ... students are exempt .. they just send in their student's certificate. Hopefully, the loan they get for living expenses goes to most of the other cost.

That wasn't where I was going though in this discussion, was trying to say the experience of working and living with five or six other students helps you to work as a team and coming to decisions, compromises, sharing life with other people to make life comfortable. Who has the top shelf in the fridge, etc.,

Anyway, get the impression you had lots of fun in your jobs ... would have loved to have been on the purchasing side, at least you get all the choccies and wine at Christmas ...

I wasn't trying to trip you up, I wanted to know myself too.

I totally agree that a lot of students work, and that greatly benefits themselves in many ways, and also society. Though let's not forget not all students work, either part time in term, or in the vacations.

I stand by my posts that students, like many other minority groups, have a differing experience to the majority. Though their opinions are just as valid as anyone else's, even when I personaly think they're wrong.

All I ever said was that I believe their experiences and thoughts, will be different after leaving full time education. I know mine were.

Any bribes, opps, meant presents, I used to give to our eighty odd year old cleaner, to repay her for the free tins of mince she used to get from Southwark Council, and palm off on me, because she said it was a lower grade meat than dog food.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by andrewb

You can still infer and come across in the way that I mention, even if you do not directly say 'student's opinions matter less'. I'm sure you understand the difference between the two.

For example, a student on here posted that your O-level was equivalent to a GCSE not a degree as you originally stated. You agreed that HE was correct, and you were wrong. However you still went on to post this patronising statement:



It has an air of elitism that is far beyond it's time.

Firstly I don't personally know the member to whom you refer, so had/have no idea he is a student.

Secondly I am fully aware that an Economics O-level isn't equal to a modern degree in that subject. It was what some of us call humour, but whoosh, nevermind. Some have a sense of one, and others don't.

As for patronage, I'm with Eleanor Roosevelt.

'No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.'

Now run along like a good boy. I'm sure you could be making better use of your time by studying, than having me run rings round you on here.

[garinda]

Should this thread wander really be kept going by a moderator?

I'd hate for anyone to get banned.