Council Cuts

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson

I honestly don't know how you would make those sort of cuts. Well not without jobs going.And if that happens it's bound to effect services. Where not just talking Hyndburn Council, but also Lancashire County Council.

I don't mean to appear off or to be picking on you as an individual but you could be part of the controlling group in May setting the budget. If you don't know how HBC can make those cuts what hope is there for Hyndburn?

Like I said that comment is nothing personal towards you, I am just trying to point out what I have said before about many (if not most) Councillors having little idea on how to run a business. I know the Council is not what you might call a normal business but it has many of the same issues.

It has always appeared odd that we vote in normal people to decide how to run the place when what we need is experts in managing business and people and money.

I would say the same about most councillors of all colours before anyone says I have a political bias.

[Acrylic-bob]

"Front Line Services" I have never understood this term that one hears bandied about so glibly and meaninglessly. Can anyone define for me precisely which services offered by HBC are designated by this dreadful misuse of the language?

[duggie]

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob

Eighteen percent, Hmmm. Assuming that you had the responsibility, where would you begin to cut eighteen percent from the budget of HBC? What jobs and services would you axe or cut back on?

The current budget is somewhere in the region of £16 Million with £4 million in reserves and a net pensions deficit of £47 million and a wages bill of £13 million.

It is interesting to note that the Managing Director of HBC is paid a total of £147,672 pa (which includes employer pension contributions of £27,608.) and his deputy is paid £119,053 (which includes employer pension contributions of £21,896 ).

I wonder if they will be taking an 18% cut, what do you think?

16 million to get my bin emptied, bargain lol

[Acrylic-bob]

It is also interesting to note that the Prime Minister is paid £142,000. £147k for refereeing a bunch of immature egomaniacs is a bit much don't you think?

[gynn]

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob

"Front Line Services" I have never understood this term that one hears bandied about so glibly and meaninglessly. Can anyone define for me precisely which services offered by HBC are designated by this dreadful misuse of the language?

Let's take the example the emptying of your bin. The people who empty it can't do it alone. They need someone to drive them to your house in a lorry which needs to be looked after in a garage that needs to be maintained. They have to be told which house to go to by a supervisor who needs to be managed by a director who needs to be guided by a councillor who needs to decide how often your bin will be emptied.

Meanwhile, someone has to check that it is the right type of rubbish in the right colour bin. Someone has to keep a record of how much it is all costing. Someone has to ensure that nothing illegal is being done in emptying your bin. Someone has to fill in the forms to say that your bin has been emptied, into the right colour box at the right price and in full accordance with the law. Someone has to fill in more forms which compare how your bin has been emptied compared to bins in a council of similar size and standing, and someone has to fill in a form to show that in empying your bin, the Council has acted in accordance with its corporate strategy. Finally, someone has to decide whether the emptying of your bin, along with the other services that the council provides makes the council weak, poor, average, good or, in Hyndburn's case, excellent.

And of course all these people need to be told how to do it by a supervisor who needs to be managed by a director who needs to be guided by a councillor who wants to take the glory.

The front line service is the actual emptying of the bin.

You got it?

[lancsdave]

I reckon the army of hand gritters the council employs will be first to be cut

[Neil]

Originally Posted by gynn

Let's take the example the emptying of your bin. The people who empty it can't do it alone. They need someone to drive them to your house in a lorry which needs to be looked after in a garage that needs to be maintained. They have to be told which house to go to by a supervisor who needs to be managed by a director who needs to be guided by a councillor who needs to decide how often your bin will be emptied.

Meanwhile, someone has to check that it is the right type of rubbish in the right colour bin. Someone has to keep a record of how much it is all costing. Someone has to ensure that nothing illegal is being done in emptying your bin. Someone has to fill in the forms to say that your bin has been emptied, into the right colour box at the right price and in full accordance with the law. Someone has to fill in more forms which compare how your bin has been emptied compared to bins in a council of similar size and standing, and someone has to fill in a form to show that in empying your bin, the Council has acted in accordance with its corporate strategy. Finally, someone has to decide whether the emptying of your bin, along with the other services that the council provides makes the council weak, poor, average, good or, in Hyndburn's case, excellent.

And of course all these people need to be told how to do it by a supervisor who needs to be managed by a director who needs to be guided by a councillor who wants to take the glory.

The front line service is the actual emptying of the bin.

You got it?

No, I am a bit simple, please could you explain again,

[gynn]

Let's take the example of emptying your.....oh never mind!

Suffice to say that in finding cuts in spending, I'm not sure that the front line is the first place to look!

[Neil]

I am not sure what County do with the biggest % of our Council Tax. Maybe all the cuts should come from LCC and leave HBC alone

[Acrylic-bob]

Originally Posted by gynn

The front line service is the actual emptying of the bin.

You got it?

Oh, I see. It's the bit that we, the public, see, as opposed to the legions of seat warming paper shufflers, chronic sick leave takers and professional training course attendees who appear to infest Scaitcliffe Towers. Well, why can't they say that rather than indulging in this ridiculous mid atlantic newspeak? Anyway, Sack the bluddy lot of em. Problem solved!

And another thing... Why do we need so many councillors? Who, if past election turnout statistics are to be believed, only actually represent about thirty percent of the electorate.

Good Grief. at this rate we will have saved the entire budget by midnight. Easy peasy, and all without claiming an allowance!

[gynn]

The good thing, though, is that "Excellent" Councils receive favourable treatment from government in grant distribution, because they have proved that they are trustworthy in not wasting public money.

Hyndburn went to great lengths (and expense - rooms at the Dunkenhalgh don't come cheap) to satisfy the Audit Commission as to their capabilities, and the Audit Commission responded to the Councils amorous advances by awarding an "Excellent" tag.

So money well spent and pay back time from HM Government? Well not exactly. The Council has received exactly the same grant as if they had been called "weak" or "poor" by the Audit Commission. The worst possible settlement of any council in England.

....errrr and its the same Audit Commission that has now been abolished, leaving its members only warm memories of their luxury nights at the Dunk.

Back to the drawing board, I think.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by gynn

The good thing, though, is that "Excellent" Councils receive favourable treatment from government in grant distribution, because they have proved that they are trustworthy in not wasting public money.

Hyndburn went to great lengths (and expense - rooms at the Dunkenhalgh don't come cheap) to satisfy the Audit Commission as to their capabilities, and the Audit Commission responded to the Councils amorous advances by awarding an "Excellent" tag.

So money well spent and pay back time from HM Government? Well not exactly. The Council has received exactly the same grant as if they had been called "weak" or "poor" by the Audit Commission. The worst possible settlement of any council in England.

....errrr and its the same Audit Commission that has now been abolished, leaving its members only warm memories of their luxury nights at the Dunk.

Back to the drawing board, I think.

that really brasses me off, whilst i accept the need fer cuts, cutting the most deprived areas the most is unacceptable.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob

Oh, I see. It's the bit that we, the public, see, as opposed to the legions of seat warming paper shufflers, chronic sick leave takers and professional training course attendees who appear to infest Scaitcliffe Towers. Well, why can't they say that rather than indulging in this ridiculous mid atlantic newspeak? Anyway, Sack the bluddy lot of em. Problem solved!

And another thing... Why do we need so many councillors? Who, if past election turnout statistics are to be believed, only actually represent about thirty percent of the electorate.

Good Grief. at this rate we will have saved the entire budget by midnight. Easy peasy, and all without claiming an allowance!

I have to come in as defence for Hyndburn Council here and point out that there are remarkably few paper shufflers at Scaitcliffe House. In terms of manpower, from what I can see there really isn't an awful lot of room for manouevre in terms of slashing manpower.

What can be cut drastically is the number of small amounts which are frittered away on bits of nothing. It goes on all the time and to be honest it would count for a very large amount of what we're being told to save.

£1,000 here, £2,000 there....there are innumerable awards ceremonies and buffet lunches to cut for a start. Tatty bye, I can make my own butties and give myself a pat on the back without it costing thousands of pounds of public money. In terms of personal luxuries, being a councillor isn't the cushy life some people might think but those perks don't come with other jobs so I don't see any reason why we should have them.

As far as too many councillors are concerned, please don't reduce the number any more or I'm out. Looking after 3,300 homes is damned hard work and I don't fancy widening the radius of the houses I have to keep informed of events. All three of us are responsible for all 3,300 homes in Rishton and I'd find it much harder to communicate with every resident without the support of Cllr Grayson. We've both been out seeing residents this evening and posting Christmas cards with helpline numbers on plus have over a dozen other people still to see before weekend. It isn't easy but it is enjoyable, although piling more work on would push me towards standing down. I simply don't have the time, neither would many people who work so you end up left with the option of the retired or the unemployed and close the door to those who want to make a difference but can't.

The phone never stops ringing and my email inbox is always full. I'll take the fact that I am getting more and more calls as a sign that people feel they can come to me with a reasonable chance of getting a decent response but I've got other work to do as well.

At the moment you have 35 people representing over 80,000 residents in Hyndburn, I don't think that's over-egging the pudding too much.

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

£1,000 here, £2,000 there....there are innumerable awards ceremonies and buffet lunches to cut for a start. Tatty bye, I can make my own butties and give myself a pat on the back without it costing thousands of pounds of public money. In terms of personal luxuries, being a councillor isn't the cushy life some people might think but those perks don't come with other jobs so I don't see any reason why we should have them.

Just a point about those buffet lunches. That is actually supplying work for the caterers who are a local business. Whilst you're seeing it from one point of view i.e. cushy lunches, you could also see it as keeping small, local businesses in business.

BTW - not actually saying that they shouldn't stop buffet lunches, just pointing out that as usual there is another side.

[walkinman221]

Still if it all goes tits up we can always go picking fruit down south as suggested by this idiot . David Shakespeare, leader of the Conservative group on the Local Government Association (LGA), told colleagues that people from the north may “replace the Romanians in the cherry orchards”.

During an LGA Executive discussion on ways to respond to an expected rise in unemployment in less well off parts of the country, he added that it “may be a good thing” if eastern European economic migrants were replaced by those from the north. It just goes to show the tories have not changed since the last time they held power they dont give a stuff for the common man in the north or south for that matter .The only problem was the so called peoples party Labour where just as bad, me thinks we are all doomed

Mr Shakespeare is the leader of Buckinghamshire County Council, where he has served for 29 years, and was awarded an OBE