Council Finances - Where we are now.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by Neil

I know thats why I find it so funny that its ok for one leader to not come on here but not for another.

I will go back in my cupboard now and stay quiet

You're giving this one a good milking.

TheLeadersOfficeHBC, whoever that might have been (although the v-card gave us a hint), posted on here a few times and then Accyweb was commented on in the corridors and meetings up at HBC plus there are suspected moles watching our every word.

Miles Parkinson is not one for joining internet forums or using Facebook and, as far as I am aware, has never hovered around the edge criticising those who use such forums whilst refusing to take part in debates himself.

Peter referred quite often to councillors commenting on Accrington Web.

Miles seemingly doesn't mind what people say on this forum but equally has no desire to take part himself.

There's no pretence involved that Miles would ever post on here, I don't see the big deal.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by entwisi

I was just wondering why Graham has posted all this and not our new Council Leader.

Sorry Graham but I'd rather you focus on your role as MP and let the local council leader focus on his job ( and by that I mean setting out how we are going to work for the next X years not how much mud he can chuck at someone across the council chamber)

far too much energy is wasted on "he said this, he did that" as opposed to making OUR TOWN the best it can be with the funds it has. If I worked like that in my job I'd be thrown out as not fit for purpose. We all know there are lies damm lies and council finances so lets stop messing about and get on with the job in hand.

The new administration are trying to make local government more cohesive and as such are involving the MP. I personally feel that it gives the council more credence to have be unified whole than several faceless entities who pop up every four years for your vote and are then never heard from again, you can't have it both ways. The fact that parts of Westminster are currently in recess may also have something to do with Graham's presence in Hyndburn just now, although I don't think that Cllr Britcliffe would need an inexperienced councillor like me to tell him that.

Burnley's MP is also the Leader of the Council, would people level the same criticisms at him?

Council meetings from now on are intended to be a much more civilised affair and Miles Parkinson has restructured Question Time to give more answers than before by eliminating pointless political debate and getting on with what we're paid for rather than dodging bullets.

A cursory glance at the local papers shows that Graham Jones puts well above the required effort into improving Hyndburn and fighting for the borough, far more than I ever saw of Greg Pope before him and criticisms of getting too involved don't add up to me. He doesn't live permanently in London, he comes home every Thursday night. I think we're lucky to have an MP who does care enough to speak out on local political issues when it matters.

We are told by Conservative councillors that HBC's finances are in great shape and yet one of the officers was left on his own to answer questions on the Township Regeneration proposals at a Resources Overview & Scrutiny call-in this Tuesday:

Resources Overview and Scrutiny Committee

I would have thought that portfolio holders would have the courage of their convictions and face questions themselves on policy decisions that they have tried to implement.

Accusations of Labour lies will never be a substitute for solid answers.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Personally, I don't care who tells us what is happening.....I only care that we are kept in the picture.
And while I agree with your sentiments about the name calling and the mud slinging....and maybe that is why Miles Parkinson isn't on here. Perhaps he is doing exactly what you have said you want......getting on with the job in hand.

And shouldn't the quote be 'Lies, damn lies and statistics'.......literary licence?

Or, as a former Canadian Prime Minister, John Diefenbaker, observed (and I don't know if it originated with him): A politician uses statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post; more for support than illumination."

[jaysay]

Well its obvious to me that the only sensible thing to do is wait for the auditors report, who is totally independent and as no axe to grind. It has also surprised me that our MP feels the need to make these statements regarding the councils finances, there are a elected members of the ruling group, who are members on here, or is it that Cllr Parkinson is only a figure head and its the MP who is still in charge, can't remember in all my time in politics the MP getting so involved with council business, unless he thinks his troops on the ground aren't capable of running the show without him, seems very strange to me

[Tealeaf]

Originally Posted by Eric

Or, as a former Canadian Prime Minister, John Diefenbaker, observed (and I don't know if it originated with him): A politician uses statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post; more for support than illumination."

I thought the quote was about how a dog uses a lamp post.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Well its obvious to me that the only sensible thing to do is wait for the auditors report, who is totally independent and as no axe to grind. It has also surprised me that our MP feels the need to make these statements regarding the councils finances, there are a elected members of the ruling group, who are members on here, or is it that Cllr Parkinson is only a figure head and its the MP who is still in charge, can't remember in all my time in politics the MP getting so involved with council business, unless he thinks his troops on the ground aren't capable of running the show without him, seems very strange to me

John, with the greatest respect, I do not think the comment about Miles Parkinson is fair.....does it really matter who tells us what kind of mess we are in?
I think Ken Moss has already addressed the issue of why Graham Jones is being involved in council business.
Would you prefer that our MP took no interest in his constituency?
How better to find out what is going on in your own backyard than to attend the council meetings and hear the worries of the electorate first hand.
Just because it has not been done in this way before...does this mean that everything should remain as is?

Much needs to be done to ensure political engagement with the local electorate.......there is, and will continue to be, apathy with regards to local issues if things do not change.

People are turned off by politics, but they do not appear to realise that every aspect of their lives is touched by politics, in one shape or another.

[JCB]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Well its obvious to me that the only sensible thing to do is wait for the auditors report, who is totally independent and as no axe to grind.

Well said , Jaysay , and the quicker the better . Figures are being bandied about and I don't think I'm on my own in being very by it all .

I hope the auditor's report will be available to the public , in full .

[Tealeaf]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Just because it has not been done in this way before...does this mean that everything should remain as is?

.

Quite right, Margaret. Politics should always be radical, both in it's philosophy and it's administration. The Tories did exactly that when they got into bed with those hypocitical dirt balls, the Lib-Dems.

As regards Graham's accusations about Britcliffes end of term spending spree, I don't know that much about local government finance to comment. I can comment however, about the last monthly sets of figures of HBC's expenditure >£500pds. March certainly makes interesting reading, and if you download the spreadsheet and then do a few pivot table and V look-up exercises you'll see what I mean.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Well its obvious to me that the only sensible thing to do is wait for the auditors report, who is totally independent and as no axe to grind. It has also surprised me that our MP feels the need to make these statements regarding the councils finances, there are a elected members of the ruling group, who are members on here, or is it that Cllr Parkinson is only a figure head and its the MP who is still in charge, can't remember in all my time in politics the MP getting so involved with council business, unless he thinks his troops on the ground aren't capable of running the show without him, seems very strange to me

Whilst I respect that for some people the involvement and statements of the MP are in stark contrast to what has gone before and is something of a shock, Miles is very definitely in the council driving seat and Graham is firmly at the Hyndburn constituency helm.

This doesn't and shouldn't stop them talking about each other's territory because it is essentially the same turf. We need to work together and attempt better communication between district, county and parliamentary levels in order to get a better grip on the borough's affairs than the last lot. Contrary to popular Conservative belief, Graham Jones is not pulling the strings but the Labour group enjoy a better relationship with him than they do and it obviously doesn't sit well.

The days of one man making all the decisions are over.

Deal with it.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by Tealeaf

Quite right, Margaret. Politics should always be radical, both in it's philosophy and it's administration. The Tories did exactly that when they got into bed with those hypocitical dirt balls, the Lib-Dems.

As regards Graham's accusations about Britcliffes end of term spending spree, I don't know that much about local government finance to comment. I can comment however, about the last monthly sets of figures of HBC's expenditure >£500pds. March certainly makes interesting reading, and if you download the spreadsheet and then do a few pivot table and V look-up exercises you'll see what I mean.

The link to the council spreadsheets is here:

Expenditure over £500

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

Whilst I respect that for some people the involvement and statements of the MP are in stark contrast to what has gone before and is something of a shock, Miles is very definitely in the council driving seat and Graham is firmly at the Hyndburn constituency helm.

This doesn't and shouldn't stop them talking about each other's territory because it is essentially the same turf. We need to work together and attempt better communication between district, county and parliamentary levels in order to get a better grip on the borough's affairs than the last lot. Contrary to popular Conservative belief, Graham Jones is not pulling the strings but the Labour group enjoy a better relationship with him than they do and it obviously doesn't sit well.

The days of one man making all the decisions are over.

Deal with it.

If MPs were to get involved in council business in every constituency in the country, who the hell would run the country, we elect members of parliament to be just that, and believe me, that is not an easy job, remember I've seen what goes on in an MP's office and just what the workload is, and when your trying to do parliamentary work plus county council work and borough council work somethings got to give, and as much as Graham thinks he superman, before long he'll need to go back to Krypton for a recharge. Nobody can be everything to all men all the time

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Eric

Or, as a former Canadian Prime Minister, John Diefenbaker, observed (and I don't know if it originated with him): A politician uses statistics like a drunk uses a lamp post; more for support than illumination."

something about lies, damn lies and statistics Eric

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

Whilst I respect that for some people the involvement and statements of the MP are in stark contrast to what has gone before and is something of a shock, Miles is very definitely in the council driving seat and Graham is firmly at the Hyndburn constituency helm.

This doesn't and shouldn't stop them talking about each other's territory because it is essentially the same turf. We need to work together and attempt better communication between district, county and parliamentary levels in order to get a better grip on the borough's affairs than the last lot. Contrary to popular Conservative belief, Graham Jones is not pulling the strings but the Labour group enjoy a better relationship with him than they do and it obviously doesn't sit well.

The days of one man making all the decisions are over.

Deal with it.

Very well put...personally I would have used S.U.M.O...shut up, move on.

I am glad that the days of one man making all decisions has come to an end....and that there will be a new type of political teamwork.....maybe now we can get somewhere.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by jaysay

If MPs were to get involved in council business in every constituency in the country, who the hell would run the country, we elect members of parliament to be just that, and believe me, that is not an easy job, remember I've seen what goes on in an MP's office and just what the workload is, and when your trying to do parliamentary work plus county council work and borough council work somethings got to give, and as much as Graham thinks he superman, before long he'll need to go back to Krypton for a recharge. Nobody can be everything to all men all the time

John, again with the greatest respect, things have changed over the years.......and I feel that our MP will know what work he has to do to keep those plates spinning......I don't for one minute think that Graham is daft.
Technology and electronic communications means that thing can be done in a much quicker way, and you can be in one place while dealing with situations arising somewhere else.

If Graham make some MCU, then perhaps you can say he isn't up to everything he has taken on...until then we have to believe that he has control of all those plates that are spinning.
Some people can make the simplest of tasks look hard(and I know this from my own experiences in life).

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Tealeaf

Quite right, Margaret. Politics should always be radical, both in it's philosophy and it's administration. The Tories did exactly that when they got into bed with those hypocitical dirt balls, the Lib-Dems.

As regards Graham's accusations about Britcliffes end of term spending spree, I don't know that much about local government finance to comment. I can comment however, about the last monthly sets of figures of HBC's expenditure >£500pds. March certainly makes interesting reading, and if you download the spreadsheet and then do a few pivot table and V look-up exercises you'll see what I mean.

Tealeaf, I don't do(understand) spread sheets......they are Greek to me.
I have this blind spot about them.....cannot get to grips with them at all.
So I haven't accessed them, and can't comment on them.