Council get something right!! - Page 10

park381 · 07-03-2005, 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Jones

IMHO Nigel Rix and Hyndburn First. Hyndburn First was cut to much slack and allowed to operate as a quango by PB and the Tories who wanted to move away from Labour Town Hall fiefdom. Except the beast had two heads. The rest is history. Welcome Blackburn and Darwen Council Regeneration Arm to run Hyndburn.

A least there will be a £75,000 saving, for the moment.
And PB welcomed Blackburn with Darwen

So who are they responsible to,or are they to be allowed to do as they please

Graham Jones · 07-03-2005, 19:16

[QUOTE=WillowTheWhisp]The Panopticon threat is something on many people's minds and a lot of us suspect it could end up leading HBC even further into debt. As Tealeaf says what about future maintainance and even the peripherals such as improving access to the site which doesn't come under the umbrella of MPAA?

The question is Will the Regional Park provide ongoing funding? If so how much? then we should make our decision on that.

Can't HBC just decide not to have a panopticon and then get on with life?

Yes. No Panopticon and lets get on with improving the site. No matter what happens the FoAH will carry on working for improvements. Life would be a damn site easier with the Panopticon though from funding discussions we have had.

Point taken about your son being gutted if he couldn't go to a football match but would it have been possible for you to opt out of work if the match had been played in an afternoon?

I am lucky, yes. The boss wouldn't have missed it for anything. He alters the factory schedule for England World Cup and European Championship Finals. Unusual I know though England matches it is becoming a bit more of the accepted norm now.

Graham Jones · 07-03-2005, 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by park381

A least there will be a £75,000 saving, for the moment.

well I am not sure. maybe next year when redundancy has worked through??!

And PB welcomed Blackburn with Darwen

So who are they responsible to,or are they to be allowed to do as they please

To cabinet and PB. Its a straight forward contract. They are very good. What did PB say. No No No to Panopticons and No No No to Blackburn. Bill Taylor [Blackburn BC] was like Hitler with his tanks at Hyndburns door didnt he say. Across PBs dead body.

Just another press headline that sucked many folk in when you look back because the real debate was stifled and people only had their fears to go off. Deja Vu.

Acrylic-bob · 07-03-2005, 19:24

>>No. Council has very few powers now. It passes the budget thats all. Plus any constitutional changes and passes the minutes of meetings. Thats it. Everything else ends at the Cabinet. Its a very closed system designed to fast track desicions.<<

If this is so, then what is the point going to all the fuss and expense of electing so many councillors? And where does the idea of democracy feature in all this fast-track jerrymandering?

park381 · 07-03-2005, 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Jones

To cabinet and PB. Its a straight forward contract. They are very good

Ay Blackburn with Darwen have some "grande" ideas/plans, don't know if HBC can afford them

Quote:

well I am not sure. maybe next year when redundancy has worked through??!

You mean he left with the normal "Golden Handshake"

Acrylic-bob · 07-03-2005, 19:43

And how many more like him are still in position?

Graham Jones · 07-03-2005, 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob

>>No. Council has very few powers now. It passes the budget thats all. Plus any constitutional changes and passes the minutes of meetings. Thats it. Everything else ends at the Cabinet. Its a very closed system designed to fast track desicions.<<

If this is so, then what is the point going to all the fuss and expense of electing so many councillors? And where does the idea of democracy feature in all this fast-track jerrymandering?

funny you should say that bob.

Richmond Council who are all Tory or quasi Tory have been studying Hyndburn and in the brief chat I have had with several of them they branded it awful and described PB as dictator. She described the cabinet as a disgusting & continual election roadshow. And it is. And thats Tory outsiders.

I suggested sarcastically to the Tory leader that the Labour Group would appreciate this monopoly on power if we got back in and she gave me an awfully hard disgusted stare and said "no matter what party benefits its disgusting". Sometimes Tory allegiances can be extreme so the thought that Labour might one day have that level of power clearly cleared her thought processes. I just wish Tories in Hyndburn could be as lucid in their thinking.

The last 5 years have been disastrous. In 1999 we were 10.9m in debt, now its 27m. Still you can always blame Tony Blair at the ballot box. Might make HBCs problems much worse, but it still makes some people feel better.. [ i say that sarcastically from canvassing on door steps - forgive me]

The one year we had in power we discovered how awful it was. It was probably that level of personal stress that caused the Labour Leader Ian Ormerod to have a stroke.

Graham Jones · 07-03-2005, 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by park381

Ay Blackburn with Darwen have some "grande" ideas/plans, don't know if HBC can afford them

there expertise is in external funding. There'll be some looking back to do on where certain monies have gone. Eg £500,000 SRB went into St James School whilst BwD were using SRB funding [govt] in the T/C. Labour in 1999 left a plan for a huge TC redevelopment £6m using £3m Lottery [turned down] £2m borrowing and £1m SRB. It involved plans to refurbish the market hall. PB said recently that then Leader [Lab] George Slynn had spent all the market traders money and it was his fault none was left. Fact one SRB spending in 1999 was under his control. No-one has borrowed more than him and the Lottery was never our money. The plans for the MH are still there, all paid up for and gathering dust. I spent a day going through their books. You would have thought all that work would have been teh basis for current Tory discussion but I don't think they know about it. I only know cos I was researching it last month but then we are not the cabinet and not in control. [bloody should be!!]

[color=#0000ff]You mean he left with the normal "Golden Handshake"

Couldn't possibly comment of course.

Graham Jones · 07-03-2005, 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob

And how many more like him are still in position?

We have got a fantastic Managing Director. PBs best ever decision. David Welsby. Can't say enough good things. Still, cant make a silk purse out of sows ear.

Graham Jones · 07-03-2005, 20:03

by the way if you wonder why the long thread. I am laid up ill with the flu and acheing all over. It dilutes the pain.

park381 · 07-03-2005, 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Jones

by the way if you wonder why the long thread. I am laid up ill with the flu and acheing all over. It dilutes the pain.

Sorry to hear that Graham, but you must admit, it's an interesting discussion, I just wish more of HBC's Cllr's would join the board, and take part as you have done.

garinda · 07-03-2005, 20:28

Yes really interesting to read, thanks Graham. What party do you represent, and in which ward? lf it's not being too nosey!

Graham Jones · 07-03-2005, 20:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob

>>No. Council has very few powers now. It passes the budget thats all. Plus any constitutional changes and passes the minutes of meetings. Thats it. Everything else ends at the Cabinet. Its a very closed system designed to fast track desicions.<<

If this is so, then what is the point going to all the fuss and expense of electing so many councillors?

Democracy matters I guess. There's no workable alternatives?

And where does the idea of democracy feature in all this fast-track jerrymandering?

It doesn't. As it currently stands PB constitutionally has the last say on everything and if he hears something he doesn't like he will lie to the opposite extreme to muddy the waters. He generously gave the opposition 2 debates a year, however at the end of the debate the summing up is done by him [can you believe that!].

And of course because we dont have cross debating, you cant challange a lie or a deciet, its always the last word. He rarely does scrutiny and is clever and devious and helped by Tory chairs its always a whitewash. Its totally corrupt and we are going to pay an awful price for that moral corruption.

Graham Jones · 07-03-2005, 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Yes really interesting to read, thanks Graham. What party do you represent, and in which ward? lf it's not being too nosey!

The minority party Labour. And Peel Ward. My current research is on Market Halls and our Market Hall, though i feel the Regional Park and ELP should be up there as an issue of the moment to find more out about.

I want to know the who the movers and shakers are within and what is their ambition and what is concrete [money wise etc..] and what is speculative and can we still progress without a Panopticon. And if we dont get one, to lobby for that funding, which of course through the FoAH we will be doing.

Graham Jones · 07-03-2005, 20:45

And my other research project is the growing scandal of 'top up' on rents and slum landlords in Hyndburn.