Council get something right!! - Page 11

garinda · 07-03-2005, 20:51

Thanks Graham, hopefully you will not be in the minority after the next elections.

Acrylic-bob · 07-03-2005, 20:56

Re what you were saying about The lady from Richmond. All power corrupts and absolute power, corrupts absolutely. Does the District Auditor or the Local Government Minister, Nick Raynsford, have nothing to say about such apparently flagrant bending of the rules. Presumably the people from Richmond will be submitting a report to someone!

BTW Raw Onions, My grandmother used to swear by them, Raw garlic is good too! As is pure unset honey.

Graham Jones · 07-03-2005, 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob

Re what you were saying about The lady from Richmond. All power corrupts and absolute power, corrupts absolutely. Does the District Auditor or the Local Government Minister, Nick Raynsford, have nothing to say about such apparently flagrant bending of the rules. Presumably the people from Richmond will be submitting a report to someone!

All power corrupts and absolute power, corrupts absolutely. I think you have to safeguard against that at all times. The Richmond folk were talking off the record, I don't know what they will formally decide and how it will be politely worded. we have no structure to monitor the bending of democracy. Britain doesn't have a constitution.

BTW Raw Onions, My grandmother used to swear by them, Raw garlic is good too! As is pure unset honey.

Cheers!!!!!!!!

cheers

park381 · 07-03-2005, 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Jones

And my other research project is the growing scandal of 'top up' on rents and slum landlords in Hyndburn.

That is an interesting one as well

Uncle Mick · 07-03-2005, 21:30

Bloody Hell! I`m beginning to regret starting this thread....
Countryside by committee, it makes me sick. So if we don`t have the panopticons and don`t get the additional funding, what do we lose? Let the Coppice return to nature, as it needs and has recieved very little funding over the years. Form a Friends of the Coppice group and renovate the paths ourselves and not get included in the glossy area park literature so our pound shops are a secret to the outside world.
I`m off to the library tomorrow to find out what the restrictions on the gift of Peel Park to the borough are

Graham Jones · 07-03-2005, 21:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Mick

Bloody Hell! I`m beginning to regret starting this thread....
Countryside by committee, it makes me sick.

Hi Mick. A good point. We need to stop people using it so it can return to its natural state. It would certainly sort Arden Hall paths out if they are not used. It would stop people complaining about them as well. So its a bloody good idea!!! Nice one!

So if we don`t have the panopticons and don`t get the additional funding, what do we lose?

Nothing. its stays the same! I agree!

Let the Coppice return to nature, as it needs and has recieved very little funding over the years. Form a Friends of the Coppice group and renovate the paths ourselves and not get included in the glossy area park literature so our pound shops are a secret to the outside world.

Always said aways days to Accy was a waste of time. Having more pound shops per square foot in Britain, Pound Shop Capital, cant we cash in on that? As for FoC. Wont that mean more people going up there and destroying the paths again? What about we just get the cannons back but working ones. We could definately reduce usage by all those townie slobs who'll never appreciate nature.

I`m off to the library tomorrow to find out what the restrictions on the gift of Peel Park to the borough are

Freedom of Information Act, just ask the council and save yourself the hassle of having to think it through

Margaret Pilkington · 07-03-2005, 21:49

I have found your explanations very enlightening, but I am still not in favour of the Panopticon Project.

I hope you are soon feeling better!

Graham Jones · 07-03-2005, 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I have found your explanations very enlightening, but I am still not in favour of the Panopticon Project.

I hope you are soon feeling better!

Thanks Margaret. I am somewhere in the middle to be honest. Whilst some people made up their minds right away, i think a lot of the inquisite people are hanging out for more info and a more balanced view, whichever way that is. Its better to have different opnions and suss out from that what is best. Avoid the lemmings crowd!

Acrylic-bob · 07-03-2005, 22:15

I'm just against ruining one natural monument by covering it in facile, cheap, bad "art".

Which I suppose, on reflection, is also my opinion on the town centre redevelopment.

Anyway I have had enough for one day and I am logging off - goodnight all.

WillowTheWhisp · 07-03-2005, 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Jones

No. Council has very few powers now. It passes the budget thats all. Plus any constitutional changes and passes the minutes of meetings. Thats it. Everything else ends at the Cabinet. Its a very closed system designed to fast track desicions

So when a prospective councillor tells me what he will or won't do if I vote for him he is in fact wasting my time as there'll be nothing he can do to change the way things are?

I was joking when I said "Hyndborg BC" but it's beginning to sound like I wasn't far out. If this is truly the case then I fear the council doesn't represent the electorate at all and it makes not one ha'porth of difference how the residents of the borough feel on any subject.

I'm beginning to feel very depressed.

No wonder the Ardale Clock hasn't seen the light of day again. How long before a Panopticon ends up the same?

If HBC cannot "maintain" the Coppice (although I'm baffled as to what there is to maintain about a hill - the monument and shelter haven't been touched for years except by vandals) why is there this idea that a Panopticon up there is going to produce funding from some external source?

Uncle Mick · 08-03-2005, 00:10

I`d hate people not to use the Coppice, though it`s not overused at the moment. Most of the paths erosion is due to bad drainage following the overplanting of conifers Or active positive forestry in council-speak.
As for the freedom of information act, forget it. I don`t want to wait months and pay. The council probably don`t know there are conditions attatched to the Peel Park land!

Bazf · 08-03-2005, 01:10

All power corrupts and absolute power, corrupts absolutely.

I know this is an Accrington thing but hey if we talking absolute power and corruption what about that little Hitler in London old red ken himself isnt he something to do with the Labor party?

Graham Jones · 08-03-2005, 06:26

So when a prospective councillor tells me what he will or won't do if I vote for him he is in fact wasting my time as there'll be nothing he can do to change the way things are?

depends. but politically IMHO yes. Of course you can work outside of the Council [which I try and do and raise external monies]. What you are now voting for is not a ward councillor but a collective. who runs cabinet. Labour or Tory and who is your ward councillor is much less important than what colour he flys. Its the cabinet system that has created this.

I was joking when I said "Hyndborg BC" but it's beginning to sound like I wasn't far out. If this is truly the case then I fear the council doesn't represent the electorate at all and it makes not one ha'porth of difference how the residents of the borough feel on any subject.

it only matters if a bad decision is found out. And thats 99% a press thing.

I'm beginning to feel very depressed.

I have to live through it. Even if Labour wins power back in Hyndburn with a £27m debt what do you think our agenda will have to be? Its depressing.

No wonder the Ardale Clock hasn't seen the light of d
ay again. How long before a Panopticon ends up the same?

I doubt the Panopticon will go ahead. If your gambling I would say 70.30.

If HBC cannot "maintain" the Coppice (although I'm baffled as to what there is to maintain about a hill - the monument and shelter haven't been touched for years except by vandals) why is there this idea that a Panopticon up there is going to produce funding from some external source?[/QUOTE]

The Regional Park have secured a big pot of grant money for this wider concept of selling East Lancashires appeal to a wider audience.

Someone suggested the Panopticons are more important than the budget and that I was letting Hyndburn down not voting in the sma vote last week at full council.

People who think the Panopticons are important clearly have a scewed perspective. People in Peel would accept an 80 ft concrete cow up there of it meant safer streets, lower crime, better housing, getting rid of landlords, dirty back yards, anti social neighbours, poor job prospects, drug dealers, juvenile nuisance, dereliction and fire starters.

It funny how someone derives at that notion the Panopticons are important. No one has wrote to me ever abut it, nor syooped me inthe streets pf Peel nor rung me up. One lady did mention it after half an hour as a throwaway last week, but she was ringing about Parking tickets and juvenile nuisance. And her opnion was no but wasnt important. The average Joe in a poor area simply isnt bothered.

In fact the only letter writer to Ob to critisise me was upset that I was spending to much time with 'twittering birds and nesting seasons' whilst Peel ward faced real poverty problems. Not true of course. He was going of what he had read in the paper!

At all the resident groups I attend the one issue is when is the council going to invest some money in Peel. Never ever once the Panopticon. People cant be bothered with it. Its not important on peoples agenda around here and as they elected me to put forward their prioroties, then that is clearly the buget buget budget. You'd have to creek your neck to see where the Panopticons features in the list. Sorry but thats Peel Ward.

Now for some people to whom this issue is at their heart this may not be what you want to hear. But you have to respect other peoples considered views. I did the right thing and I'll tough it out with anyone trying to hijack peoples view who elected me. We want investment [wardens a start] in Peel to begin to reverse the decline.

Thats the only message I am getting from the people round here. Peel has now officially dropped into one of the most deprived areas in the country. It has the highest vacancy rates on the Borough 11%, one of the highest landlords at 16%, the highest concentration of bad landlords, some of the poorest health stats. Go and talk about Panopticons on Horne Street where neighbours houses are derelict, abandoned and are fired out by vandals!

Or the needle infested smack den we closed last summer 50 yards from my front door near where my son and his friends play. And the constant stream of smoke screened BMWs screeching by at all hours.

When Cllr Britcliffe puts the Panopticons before that for political gain then yes I will do what is right and ignore the lesser issues and try to force the agenda back onto real issues that affect real people. Why HBC has a £27m debt and why the people of Peel are getting shafted.

I dont expect you to agree, but I hope you respect the facts and where we the residents are coming from.

Graham Jones · 08-03-2005, 06:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Mick

I`d hate people not to use the Coppice, though it`s not overused at the moment. Most of the paths erosion is due to bad drainage following the overplanting of conifers Or active positive forestry in council-speak.

As for the freedom of information act, forget it. I don`t want to wait months and pay. The council probably don`t know there are conditions attatched to the Peel Park land!

I would question the planting and erosion. Horses and access rights have come under a big spotlight as well and most of the top of coppice is plantation free and Arden Hall is a natural and varied ecosystem. And the paths there are abysmal. The cost of maintenance of the historic plantation road is beyond the council and at meetings we hold, people want some investment and it saving.

The planting affects the Peel Park front side of the coppice mainly, however their are 3 main strategic access points, 4 if you count the car park on the A66

The FoIA is one simple letter of request and the legal maximum time of reply is just 21 days. The conditions are kept in Asset Management over in what was Hyndburn First in the Globe Centre and they can be accessed within a couple of minutes. Though the actual terms of any covenenant may be more than a few lines.

They also have a newish database but I dont think that level of detail is on their yet.

WillowTheWhisp · 08-03-2005, 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Jones

People who think the Panopticons are important clearly have a scewed perspective. People in Peel would accept an 80 ft concrete cow up there of it meant safer streets, lower crime, better housing, getting rid of landlords, dirty back yards, anti social neighbours, poor job prospects, drug dealers, juvenile nuisance, dereliction and fire starters.................. The average Joe in a poor area simply isnt bothered.

I wouldn't describe inhabitants of Accrington who are interested in their surroundings as having a screwed perspective. Simply because some of us have a point of view regarding the Panopticons doesn't mean we don't have a point of view on other subjects also. But it's beginning to look like it doesn't really matter what the local people think because it isn't even the council who make the decisions, it's a small section of that council. This doesn't sound like democracy.

Quote:

At all the resident groups I attend the one issue is when is the council going to invest some money in Peel. Never ever once the Panopticon. People cant be bothered with it. Its not important on peoples agenda around here and as they elected me to put forward their prioroties, then that is clearly the buget buget budget. You'd have to creek your neck to see where the Panopticons features in the list. Sorry but thats Peel Ward.

Now I'm getting confused. You say the people of Peel ward elected you to put forward their priorities. Just as I vote for my local councillor based on what he tells me he will do once elected. But from what you've said earlier regarding what goes on in the Council then the individual councillors have very little effect at all.

Quote:

Now for some people to whom this issue is at their heart this may not be what you want to hear. But you have to respect other peoples considered views. I did the right thing and I'll tough it out with anyone trying to hijack peoples view who elected me. We want investment [wardens a start] in Peel to begin to reverse the decline.

I still don't see how abstaining from voting on the Panopticons issue solves any other problem. I'm sure quite a few of the people of Hyndburn feel their views are hijacked when a decision is made to have something on top of the Coppice which the majority of people who voted on the issue have said they would rather not have.

Quote:

Thats the only message I am getting from the people round here. Peel has now officially dropped into one of the most deprived areas in the country. It has the highest vacancy rates on the Borough 11%, one of the highest landlords at 16%, the highest concentration of bad landlords, some of the poorest health stats. Go and talk about Panopticons on Horne Street where neighbours houses are derelict, abandoned and are fired out by vandals!

Or the needle infested smack den we closed last summer 50 yards from my front door near where my son and his friends play. And the constant stream of smoke screened BMWs screeching by at all hours.

It's none too brilliant here in the Scaitcliffe area either. My main complaint as many of the AccyWeb members will know because they are probably fed up of hearing about it by now, is the rubbish in the streets. It's worse than Whinny Hill tip up here and it starts every bin day when at least one sack ends up emtying its contents down Willows Lane and Ormerod Street. The resulting mess is not cleaned up and then settles in corners and in people's gardens. There is one unmade back not a million miles from Scaitcliffe House where I wouldn't be surprised to see rats and often the smell is appalling. That can't be blamed on residents because that rubbish blows down Ormerod Street, round the corner and lodges in the grass and weeds where it proceeds to rot.

Each time someone puts up for the council they say that rubbish on the streets will be a priority. In my naive little way I believed them at first and voted for whoever made the most promises regarding improving the state of the area. Now I no longer need to wonder why none of the promises have ever been kept because if I've understood you correctly once elected there is very little they can actually do on the council.

This leaves me wondering what on earth we are voting for.

However, although rubbish is my main concern personally and it affects me personally I am also interested in wider issues and I have an opinion on other things. If I were told that a concrete cow on the Coppice would solve my rubbish problems, apart from the fact that I'd query how, I don't think I would be all that willing to accept a concrete cow because apart from not enjoying living on a rubbish dump I also actually do enjoy the wider environment and don't want to see it spoiled by something which would be tasteless and tacky and not in keeping with the area.

I also dislike the latest "improvements" to the town centre - I feel the building which houses JJB sports and Wilkinsons is out of proportion to the rest of the area and that the market isn't half as good now it is so cramped.

Surely we are entitled to our opinions on the town as a whole even if they will be largely ignored.

Quote:

When Cllr Britcliffe puts the Panopticons before that for political gain then yes I will do what is right and ignore the lesser issues and try to force the agenda back onto real issues that affect real people. Why HBC has a £27m debt and why the people of Peel are getting shafted.

I dont expect you to agree, but I hope you respect the facts and where we the residents are coming from.

It's not only the people of Peel who have problems but wouldn't it have been a simple matter to vote one way or the other and then move onto other issues? All of these things affect the residents of Hyndburn some affect a small minority and some affect the majority but all are valid.

I think it was Tealeaf who brought up the subject of the deferred meeting for the sake of a football match. That seems to have taken up rather more time than a vote for or against the Panopticon would have done.

It's not that we feel the Panopticon is more important than other issues, it's just that we have opinions on the subject and would like to think that the council we elected might take some interest in our opinions.

Somebody else could probably have put that much better than I have.