Council get something right!! - Page 15

Uncle Mick · 11-03-2005, 00:21

Not if it`s built into a wall it won`t!!

Acrylic-bob · 11-03-2005, 07:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Mick

Actually I`ve been looking at the panopticon design for Kemple End. It`s a stone wall with a lens in it. Now imagine this at the height of summer on tinder dry moorland, with the suns rays focussed on the surrounding grass.... Do these people use there brains or is "Art" the be all and end all?

I think that you will find that the majority of "these people" are not in fact artists at all. Like Chris Beard the originator of the grass humps planned for the Coppice, they are architects and landscapers. And while the Royal Academy may insist that Architects take an equal place alongside Artists in their Summer Exhibitions, I am sure that none of could mistake the product of one for the other. Unless of course you knew nothing at all about the subject (unlikely) or you were the NWRDA or Midpennine Arts.

Graham Jones · 11-03-2005, 07:52

Well its time to make an apology to the Observer - Jon!

. This week they actually printed some of the alternative views on things on a town from a political/resource/positive ideas perspective.

[As opposed to the wardens article when the lead story and huge pic was the human interest story of some lady challenging Tony Blair and later in the story a small bullet point representing more importantly some serious alternative proposals/views.]

An honest debate is to be welcomed and will be a major step forward for the town as I mentioned b4. [instead of celebrity for a day journailm]

Progress comes via different [and informed] opinions, not just one person. I say things that are wrong [not intentionally] but without a wide opinion, bad ideas go unchecked.

Anyway being doing some research on funding [government funding to HBC] makes interstinjg reading:

Govt increases in funding year by year [66% of income]:
Labour Government siince 1997.

1999 3.1%,
2000 4.5%,
2001 4.2%,
2002 3.0%,
2003 9.4%,
2004 0.5% & £500,000 Housing Benefit recalulation [approx 6%]
2005 6.2%

Council Tax Rise [33% of income]
[Conservatives is control except 2002-2003]
1999 4.5%, [Lab pass budget, Con win election]
2000 0.0%, [Con budget]
2001 7.9%, [Con]
2002 2.8%, [Con set budget, lose election]
2003 3.9%, [Lab set budget, lose election]]
2004 3.9%, [Con]
2005 5.0%, [Con]
**Council Housing is a totally seperate matter and not relevant to other expenditure.

TOTAL COUNCIL EXPENDITURE COUNCIL TAX + GOVT GRANT
[*quoted directly from Councils Med Term Fin. Strategy Doc]
? Post “Capping”.
Since 1999, net expenditure has started to rise as restrictions on spending have been lifted. 2003/2004 saw the introduction by central government of a new method of allocating resources to local authorities, and the effective abolition of the SSA. The following table shows the General Fund net budget over the past five years:-

Year Net Expenditure (£m) Increase (%)
1999/2000.......9,885.......3.8
2000/2001.......10,226.......3.4
2001/2002.......10,780.......5.4
2002/2003.......11,127.......3.2
2003/2004.......11,889.......6.8
2004/2005.......12????.......5.5??
2005/2006.......12.8m?

Council Debts [excluding Council Housing]
****** need the proper figures again.

1999 -
2000
2001
2002
2003
2004
2005

Inflation [Offical Consumer Price Index]
1999...104.8
2000...105.6
2001...106.9
2002...108.3
2003...109.8
2004...111.2
2005...[inflation = +2%]

Retail Price Index Including House Prices
1999...1.5
2000...3.0
2001...1.8
2002...1.7
2003...2.9
2004...3.0
2005...2.0%?

RPI excluding house prices
1999...1.7
2000...1.5
2001...1.5
2002...1.4
2003...1.7
2004...1.2
2005...1.0%?

Looking for these figures....
In 2000-2006? HBC £20m SRB grant
Plus From 2002-2008 - £8m NRF funding?
Plus ERDF £m?
Plus NWDA £m?
Plus Engish Partnerships £m?
Plus ODPM Elevate 2004-2007 £12m

2000-2002
In the last two years [up to 2002] Hyndburn residents have benefited from the following successful bids and allocations: -
? SRB 6 - £8m
? Sure Start - £5m
? European Regional Development Fund, Objective 2 , Priority 2 - £2.3m
? Neighbourhood Renewal Fund - £2.91m

2002-2005
In the last two years [up to 2002] Hyndburn residents have benefited from the following successful bids and allocations: -
? SRB 6 - £3.15m
? Sure Start - £?m [set to expand no of centres]
? European Regional Development Fund, Objective 2 , Priority 2 - £1.1m
? Neighbourhood Renewal Fund - £3.9m
? ELEVATE [2004-2006] - £11.5m

Acrylic-bob · 11-03-2005, 08:33

Thanks for that Graham. With the consistent above inflation increases in Govt. funding and Council Tax increases and with the amounts coming in, in grants and allocations, one wonders how the council has managed to get itself into such a financial mess.

Extrapolate the figures that Graham has given over the remainder of the "30 years of service to the community" that HBC are so proud of and you really begin to wonder!

Why is there apparently so little to show for the hundreds of millions of pounds which must have flowed into the borough since it's inception?

dillon · 11-03-2005, 08:51

I think the real question is, how bad would it be without these extra millions of pounds!!??

Cjay · 14-03-2005, 19:02

You know, I think the Council might have got it wrong on this one. I was at the meeting and the Panopticon scheme started to make a lot of sense to me. They were on about investing in the town, restoring some pride and being a really good thing for the area. Plus, they said that the design that the paper's been using isn't the final design, so they're still working on it. It's worth staying a bit open minded yet. If you went to the meeting you'll know all about it but if you didn't go you can't really talk from an informed position. I'd say yes to it myself.

park381 · 14-03-2005, 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cjay

You know, I think the Council might have got it wrong on this one. I was at the meeting and the Panopticon scheme started to make a lot of sense to me. They were on about investing in the town, restoring some pride and being a really good thing for the area. Plus, they said that the design that the paper's been using isn't the final design, so they're still working on it. It's worth staying a bit open minded yet. If you went to the meeting you'll know all about it but if you didn't go you can't really talk from an informed position. I'd say yes to it myself.

Ay they employ some expert sales persons............marketing they call it.

Cjay · 14-03-2005, 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by park381

Ay they employ some expert sales persons............marketing they call it.

It wasn't like that. But you wouldn't know that if you weren't there... or were you?

park381 · 14-03-2005, 19:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cjay

It wasn't like that. But you wouldn't know that if you weren't there... or were you?

No, I was not there, but I know from your post that they have sold it to you.Let me ask you a question, how is that going to bring investment in to accrington

Cjay · 14-03-2005, 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by park381

No, I was not there, but I know from your post that they have sold it to you.Let me ask you a question, how is that going to bring investment in to accrington

The initial £50k is investment in the town. It will be local contractors that get the contract to do the work so money in local people's pockets. But that's small fry compared to the rest of the money that they're applying for. In Rossendale they've been given an extra £300k to do pathways, disabled access, picnic tables etc - again money that will go to local companies to do the work. They're also looking at getting some English Heritage money to tidy up the monument. Plus, that doesn't take into account the amount of promotion Accrington will get on the back of it - could bring in new businesses and some good shops. Another thing to think about - if people come to visit it, they might want to have a cup of tea somewhere in town.

park381 · 14-03-2005, 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cjay

The initial £50k is investment in the town. It will be local contractors that get the contract to do the work so money in local people's pockets.

The initial £50k is investment in the town,.............. where do they plan this investment, what area of accrington?
It will be local contractors that get the contract..............which contract?
Could it be that the initial £50k would be for work on the coppice, and that this work will be given to local contractors, hence their initial £50k is investment in the town............clever stuff

Cjay · 14-03-2005, 20:00

From what I understood, there are 6 panopticon things in total and they have each been given a budget of 50k, (for the construction). That 50k will be paid to some company, (maybe split between 2 or 3), to build it. Not bad for a starter......

Graham Jones · 14-03-2005, 20:06

Rumour on the grapevine is the Tories at the next cabinet in April will do a u-turn and vote yes for the Panopticon [with reservations], which was the Labour position 6 months ago.

The chatter about Saturday [in the Ivory Tower Scaitcliffe] is that there where few desenters of the 40 attendees and nearly all 40 were positive by the end. Following yes votes at recent community groups and a possible yes at the Huncoat Area Council tomorrow and Yes at Peel & Barnfield Area Council next month local views seem to be changing dramatically provided Mr Beard dicthes the humps and comes up with something Accrington.

park381 · 14-03-2005, 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cjay

From what I understood, there are 6 panopticon things in total and they have each been given a budget of 50k, (for the construction). That 50k will be paid to some company, (maybe split between 2 or 3), to build it. Not bad for a starter......

Ah but, you said investment in the town, that's not the case is it.
"That £50k will be paid to some company".......could be any company, from Manchester or where ever, again no direct investment in accrington

park381 · 14-03-2005, 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Jones

Rumour on the grapevine is the Tories at the next cabinet in April will do a u-turn and vote yes for the Panopticon [with reservations], which was the Labour position 6 months ago.

The chatter about Saturday [in the Ivory Tower Scaitcliffe] is that there where few desenters of the 40 attendees and nearly all 40 were positive by the end. Following yes votes at recent community groups and a possible yes at the Huncoat Area Council tomorrow and Yes at Peel & Barnfield Area Council next month local views seem to be changing dramatically provided Mr Beard dicthes the humps and comes up with something Accrington.

Oh come on Graham, there can't be a yes vote if you don't know what you're getting