Council Tax 2008/2009

[garinda]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Quite simple Rindi Blackburn is a unitary authority and don't have LCC as a monkey on its back

I don't think people really care what sort of authority they are in. They are more concerned with how much they have to pay, balanced against the services they get.

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by andrew

We know the Government has flooded Hyndburn and Hyndburn Council with £millions of extra subsidies and grants so in reality my Council Tax should not have gone up at all and no where near my wage increases, yet it has doubled.

Council tax has not doubled. It has gone up by 45% as you say, which is less than half. I don't think its fair to say we have grants therefore council tax shouldn't have gone up. All authorities get grants yet we're seeing much bigger than 45% rises around the country.

Originally Posted by polly

You missed the cheapest Band A in the area, Blackburn with Darwen is just £920.07
Considerably cheaper than most of the others

You're correct it is. No Garinda of course it is not left off on purpose. As Jaysay says, Blackburn with Darwen is a Unitary Authority which means it controls all of its budget, where as 80% of ours goes to Lancashire County Council. Different kettle of fish. I, however, am an advocate of localised responsibility; it clearly helps Blackburn with Darwen keep their costs down.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by garinda

I don't think people really care what sort of authority they are in. They are more concerned with how much they have to pay, balanced against the services they get.

Well it does make a difference Rindi, when you think that 82% of the cash raised by the council tax in Hyndburn goes to the LCC, wereas eveything raised in Blackburn is spent in Blackburn means they are in control of their own financial destiny

[polly]

Originally Posted by andrewb

Council tax has not doubled. It has gone up by 45% as you say, which is less than half. I don't think its fair to say we have grants therefore council tax shouldn't have gone up. All authorities get grants yet we're seeing much bigger than 45% rises around the country.



You're correct it is. No Garinda of course it is not left off on purpose. As Jaysay says, Blackburn with Darwen is a Unitary Authority which means it controls all of its budget, where as 80% of ours goes to Lancashire County Council. Different kettle of fish. I, however, am an advocate of localised responsibility; it clearly helps Blackburn with Darwen keep their costs down.

I don't think you should disregard BwD just because we are unitarian, in fact that is more reason to include them in any value for money tables, as a comparison.
We must also remember that figures alone will not give a real value in this instance, their are so many variables, as some one said the reevaluation of wages for council employees it a big issue and their are many many more.

[g jones]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Quite simple Rindi Blackburn is a unitary authority and don't have LCC as a monkey on its back

Many County Councillors want a unitary. Your Tory Council especially, along with all the other Tory Council's and LCC blocked it.

I want a Unitary authority for many other reasons, though most are tied into efficiency and savings.

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by g jones

Many County Councillors want a unitary. Your Tory Council especially, along with all the other Tory Council's and LCC blocked it.

I want a Unitary authority for many other reasons, though most are tied into efficiency and savings.

When was this? and under what grounds?

[g jones]

Originally Posted by andrewb

I don't think its fair to say we have grants therefore council tax shouldn't have gone up. All authorities get grants yet we're seeing much bigger than 45% rises around the country.

I think that is a weak argument Andrew. A think there is strong evidence to that needs looking at.

The Governments Free Bus Scheme has meant Hyndburn no longer has to pay £450k for it's voluntary one. We now get £2.5m approx HIPS money (3rd year) which means for the first time we are not borrowing that from the bank. We get ELEVATE. We had been fiunding Project Phoenix ourselves since 2000 directly through the rates. Now the Government i funding it. The Council's website has received a massive injection of cash this week. Our Government direct grant has gone up around 60% so that should ease some of the burden as well.

In total we have received an £100m plus in this period to get things moving so the big question still is, where has all the money gone and why has Council Tax risen so sharply?

[g jones]

Originally Posted by andrewb

When was this? and under what grounds?

2/3 years ago and last year. That is why Cheshire was divided into two this year.

[claytonender]

I have just checked on LCC website for increases in median gross weeky earnings since 2000

http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/office_...s/hyincome.asp

- the median earnings of all workers have rsien from £275.20 to £374.90 per week from 2000 to 2007 (£99.70 per week = 36.23%). This is broken down into men's earning rising from £309.00 per week to £427.90 (£118.90 per week or 38.48%) and women's earning have risen from £215.90 to £267.80 (£51.90 per week or 24.03%).

As Council Tax has risen by 45% (which is Andrewb's reckoning), it has gone up by 9% more than Median Gross Weekly Pay.

What is very disturbing is that the median gross weekly earnings for woman has actually fallen since 2003 and is only £0.70 per week more than it was in 2002.

The median average hourly rate of pay (excluding overtime) is £10.32 for men (in 1998 it was £8.17) and for women is £6.87 (in 1998 it was £5.87). So in 10 years median hourly pay has only increased by £2.15 for men (26.32%) and for women £1.00 (17.05%)

[claytonender]

To see how Hyndburn compare t the rest of the county for median earnings (in 2007) these are the figures
Local Authority (Source is ONS)
(Colums are as follows - Median weekly earning, median hourly rate, median hours worked- includes overtime- median gross annual pay)

Blackburn with Darwen 354.2 9.37 37.0 18,284
Burnley 308.5 9.15 36.6 17,232
Hyndburn 287.4 7.97 37.0 15,282
Pendle 352.8 9.53 37.5 18,196
Ribble Valley 391.9 9.89 37.5 20,066
Rossendale 289.4 7.99 37.4 16,298
Blackpool 286.7 8.41 37.0 *
Chorley 320.9 9.22 37.0 18,359
Fylde 462.5 12.09 37.0 24,349
Lancaster 356.1 9.76 37.0 20,310
Preston 324.9 9.00 37.0 17,690
South Ribble 408.8 10.07 39.0 22,398
West Lancashire 376.6 9.56 37.6 20,411
Wyre 294.0 8.38 37.0 16,412


Only Blackpool has a lower average weekly median wage, but Hyndburn has the lowest hourly rate.

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by claytonender

- the median earnings of all workers have rsien from £275.20 to £374.90 per week from 2000 to 2007 (£99.70 per week = 36.23%). This is broken down into men's earning rising from £309.00 per week to £427.90 (£118.90 per week or 38.48%) and women's earning have risen from £215.90 to £267.80 (£51.90 per week or 24.03%).

As Council Tax has risen by 45% (which is Andrewb's reckoning), it has gone up by 9% more than Median Gross Weekly Pay.

1999-2009 is where the 45% is from (not just my figures, they have been used in the local Observer since I posted them here).

If you take the period 1999-2007 council tax increase is 31.8%. So if you take your figure of 36% over that period, council tax has actually been less than the increase in wages. I hadn't noticed this, thank-you for highlighting it.

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by g jones

Many County Councillors want a unitary. Your Tory Council especially, along with all the other Tory Council's and LCC blocked it.

I want a Unitary authority for many other reasons, though most are tied into efficiency and savings.

I see, you're talking about 2006 where all the Labour councillors abstained rather than voting on the issue. I thought you might have been referring to 2003, where both parties agreed the current system was best.

[BERNADETTE]

Originally Posted by andrewb

1999-2009 is where the 45% is from (not just my figures, they have been used in the local Observer since I posted them here).

If you take the period 1999-2007 council tax increase is 31.8%. So if you take your figure of 36% over that period, council tax has actually been less than the increase in wages. I hadn't noticed this, thank-you for highlighting it.

Do you know I sometimes despair when I read your posts. It has been pointed out that HBC have had numerous grants which should have avoided these big rises in council tax. So why has it gone up by 31.8%?? The fact that it has been less than the increase in wages is neither here nor there because besides council tax everything else has gone up. So the 4.2% extra on wage increases that is over and above the increase in council tax has already been eaten up by the price of other things rising. It is time you entered the real world and admitted that HBC are making a mess of things and wasting money

[claytonender]

Originally Posted by andrewb

1999-2009 is where the 45% is from (not just my figures, they have been used in the local Observer since I posted them here).

If you take the period 1999-2007 council tax increase is 31.8%. So if you take your figure of 36% over that period, council tax has actually been less than the increase in wages. I hadn't noticed this, thank-you for highlighting it.

I am a little puzzled about where 2009 comes from (as far as I am aware there has been no council tax set for 2009 (and won't be until the February 2009 meeting of the Council).

My figures for 1998 to 2007 are the increase of the median average hourly rate of pay (excluding overtime) is £10.32 for men (in 1998 it was £8.17) and for women is £6.87 (in 1998 it was £5.87). So in 10 years median hourly pay has only increased by £2.15 for men (26.32%) and for women £1.00 (17.05%). If you use the figures for all employees hourly rates in 1998 were £7.13 and in 2007 were £9.16 (an increase of £2.03 or 22.16%)

Please explain where your figure of 36% increase comes from.

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by claytonender

Please explain where your figure of 36% increase comes from.

1999/2000 - 2006/2007 is a 36% increase, my apologies for the lack of clarity.