Council Tax

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by g jones

You show how difficult it is for you to understand the Council when you do not understand local economics, disproportionate taxation, The Council's ability to raise revenue annually as required, or borrow at a low rate for the short term in a crises.

And what sort of 'rainy day' do you think there will be that will require £1million that HAS TO BE IN THE BANK?????????

I don't believe you had the nerve to tell me I don't understand local economics after this thread.

Originally Posted by g jones

We did put a budget forward. One that the Independents asked for and said they would support.

It is not for opposition parties to put idea's forward at Budget.

I read the council minutes, the only thing I can see is you putting a 2% tax increase. Hence I said 'Presumably you agree with the rest of the budget then'

If it is not for opposition parties to put forward budget proposals, then why did I find loads of Labour budgets in the council minutes from 1999-2005 (the library only had up to 2005).

Originally Posted by g jones

Independent ideas were rejected, all of them. In fact the Tories decided before hand to vote against everyone.

I'm not sure if you were paying attention at the council meeting, but heres some minutes for you:

"Councillor Collingridge reported that the Independent Members appreciated that the Leading Group had already incorporated some of the ideas into their outline budget but hoped that the majority of the Council would adopt the ideas to help take the town forward."

Originally Posted by g jones

Next year, what???? We'll just carry on within that budget. Are you suggesting Tories will put up Council tax 3 times inflation every year????

I don't think you understand. If you take money from the reserves, it means that the money is gone from the reserves so you can't spend it again next year. Therefore you need to raise the money from elsewhere. Or are you just assuming the economy will be fine over the next few years and you'd be able to dip into the reserves again? Not very responsible.

Originally Posted by g jones

I had a 23% pay rise over the period and a 45% Council tax rise. The vast majority of people are like me in this area.

Contrary to all the statistics, contrary to LCC's figures, you're basing the whole of Hyndburn on your wage? I'd rather believe official figures.

As a further note, I'm not a Labour hater, I have lots of friends within the party. In fact I don't actually hate anybody for their Politics. I feel that's counter productive.

[claytonender]

Originally Posted by Cyfr

I don't think you understand. If you take money from the reserves, it means that the money is gone from the reserves so you can't spend it again next year. Therefore you need to raise the money from elsewhere. Or are you just assuming the economy will be fine over the next few years and you'd be able to dip into the reserves again? Not very responsible.

What you are failing to understand is that the Labout proposal of 2% would not have invloved taking money from reserves. It would have ment NOT ADDING any more money to the reserves.

I am sure that you will understand (with your level of education) that there is a difference between not increasing the contribution to reserves and withdrawing money from the reserves.

[DeShark]

I'm no massive political buff, but this thread is ridiculous!

Originally Posted by g jones

Once again cr*p. Sloppy research.

...

[lots of stuff about how Cyfr's figures are wrong, with percentages to back up the argument]

Personally, I don't want to see my council leader insulting a person's ability to do research in such a manner. If there's a problem with it, simply point out the error. As it was...

Originally Posted by g jones

Apology Cyfr. Your are right I am wrong. The figures are correct but my % are wrong, calculator went AWOL.

So now, I find that the shadow leader of the opposition can't work out percentages either? And he wants to take my money and work out how it should be spent? Hopefully not with his calculator.

Then he goes on to work out the average wage increases based on his own wage? What?! There's obviously a difficulty in figuring out the average wage increase, but apparently the average household income is 28k.***

After reading this thread, I feel very disinclined to vote labour in the May elections!

A 52.7% wage rise over 6 years sounds good to me. And only a 45% raise in taxes over 10 years = double bonus. This looks pretty good to me. I can't "see how much is being wasted." Nor do I think that "It is the most expensive Council in Britain & probably the worst".

***(Average here should be mean, if there's no skew - Or median, if the wages are skewed by many people earning upward of 100k. This ought to take account of the worries of Claytonender - Median values are not affected by skew) Another worry of mine is using job adverts to show an average. Just because a job isn't advertised doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Any higher wage jobs are probably obtained via promotion. Therefore, using job finding websites will bias the results towards lower wage jobs!

[Neil]

Originally Posted by panther

dont forget, that we wouldnt have council tax in the first place if Thatcher hadnt fetched out the poll tax....bloody tories fault

And what is wrong with Poll Tax?

[MargaretR]

Originally Posted by Neil

And what is wrong with Poll Tax?

It was uncollectable from those determined to avoid it. People move - houses dont.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

It was uncollectable from those determined to avoid it. People move - houses dont.

Same problems with both. The people in the house move and the council tax does not get collected.

[MargaretR]

There are more people than there are houses so the non collection problem was bigger.
It was easy for people to disappear from the eletoral roll.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by DeShark

After reading this thread, I feel very disinclined to vote labour in the May elections!

Since you said in another thread, regarding David Cameron, and I quote, 'I absolutely adore his character and style', I would have been very suprised to hear that you were voting for Labour.


http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...web-22265.html

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by claytonender

What you are failing to understand is that the Labout proposal of 2% would not have invloved taking money from reserves. It would have ment NOT ADDING any more money to the reserves.

I am sure that you will understand (with your level of education) that there is a difference between not increasing the contribution to reserves and withdrawing money from the reserves.

From what g jones (Labour group leader) has been saying here it sounds like its directly from the reserves, he never said anything about taking it from not increasing reserves.

Here's a direct extract from the council meeting:

Originally Posted by Council Meeting

A second amendment was moved by Councillor Jones and seconded by Councillor Pam
Barton, “That the Council Tax increase for 2008/09 be 2%, the reduction to be funded by
the use of reserves.”

[DeShark]

Originally Posted by garinda

Since you said in another thread, regarding David Cameron, and I quote, 'I absolutely adore his character and style', I would have been very suprised to hear that you were voting for Labour.

Shall I quote in full?

"I absolutely adore his character and style and watching him on PMQ gives me a giggle, but I can't stand him to be honest."

I'm quite offended you took it upon yourself to try to discredit me by quoting only half of what I said.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by DeShark

Shall I quote in full?

"I absolutely adore his character and style and watching him on PMQ gives me a giggle, but I can't stand him to be honest."

I'm quite offended you took it upon yourself to try to discredit me by quoting only half of what I said.

Well I seriously hope you won't be offended by two other quotes of your's from the same thread.


'Not that I'm a Tory per se.'

'This would probably make me vote conservative (if they still held their older values of privatisation, which cameron doesn't, and he won't reduce taxes... he'll probably take away benefits too). '



Both quotes or made in full.

Rather takes something away from your little flounce, that because of Mr Jone's contribution to this thread, you won't be voting Labour.

[Royboy39]

Originally Posted by DeShark

Shall I quote in full?

I'm quite offended you took it upon yourself to try to discredit me by quoting only half of what I said.

He does that as a matter of course to try and be clever....he has me on his ignore list so i'm not bothered.

[DeShark]

Originally Posted by garinda

Both quotes or made in full.

But they're not are they? I listed a whole tonne about my views on several political issues, then said that might lead me to vote tory, however they have some policies I don't like. Besides that was ages ago and obviously my opinions have changed over that time. It's not relevant to this debate. Why bring it up?

All I was saying was that a leader of the council should be able to do basic maths and not be so rude to people regarding their research (especially when it turns out to have been correct). It's not very professional. If you disagree, then feel free to vote labour in the upcoming elections.

Edit: And saying I'm "not a Tory per se" is not saying I'm a Tory. I never said I wasn't going to vote labour, I just said disinclined and I never said I was going to vote conservative, just disinclined to vote labour.

[Royboy39]

[quote=DeShark;556467]then feel free to vote labour in the upcoming elections.quote]

Lets play trick with editing.
You can be sure that he will, if not we have gained a supporter and all the supporters of the R***y faith and retoric will be very disapointed.
I remain on the ignore list............so...my Spanish is quite good and I may get in trouble if I say what I am thinking in other that the English language.
If I say what I am thinking in my mother tongue I may get in trouble so good luck tory bretheren........I think we might have won a do.
Good luck Accrington Stanley (Hope the name stays the same)...Good luck
Blackburn Rovers......Burnley - You need all the luck you can get.
If I am still on the ignore list I will be more than happy

[garinda]

Originally Posted by DeShark

Besides that was ages ago and obviously my opinions have changed over that time.

Well I guess I'm just lucky, in as much that my core beliefs, and principles, have remained constant since childhood.