Councillor Jones is Famous!!!!! - Page 2

staggeringman · 27-04-2005, 18:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorlon24

I got called a Tory by him about a week ago!

I get the feeling that whatever he believes in is right, which means that if you believe in something else you are wrong.

There is not much point in arguing with people like that

you have just hit the nail on the head vorlon !!! dont they all.

pendy · 27-04-2005, 20:32

I'm not sure if Councillor Jones is aware of this, but he is in a difficult position when it comes to the laws of libel to say that there is an OFFICIAL BNP site where, if his name is published, his home could be firebombed. There is also the fact that, since he appears on a site naming extreme left-wing people, and given that he is a councillor - ergo his name and address have to be available to the electorate - he is being just the tiniest bit over-dramatic here. Having spent a year or so living with a man who was on an IRA hitlist - simply because he was a British diplomat at consular level (the IRA go through the current consular lists, easily available, and target at random - but they always seem to let 5 know) I don't feel the same degree of drama.

Let us be clear about this: GJ has his opinion. Tealeaf has his opinion. Vorlon has his (I think! - I am assuming gender here!) opinion. I have mine. All are valid. No-one is right, no-one is wrong. To say "This is my opinion. Therefore I am right and you are wrong" is not socialism, not conservatism, it is simply and solely fascism. Fascism is not the prerogative of the right wing. It exists whenever and wherever a sector of the population say that what they believe is right, anything else is wrong. It is a short step to saying "It is wrong and therefore it should be punished". Then follows: If you do not say what I believe, then you are wrong and should be silenced.

Heinrich Heine said of Hitler's beloved Third Reich in its early days, when contrary thought was being stamped out -

"If you begin by burning books, you will end by burning people".

THIS SITE IS FOR EVERYONE, REGARDLESS OF POLITICAL, SOCIAL OR RELIGIOUS BELIEF. And yes, on this occasion, I am shouting!

So, Councillor Jones, you are entitled to whatever views you choose to subscribe to, but do not take the moral high ground with the rest of us who do not necessarily wholeheartedly follow you.

Bagpuss · 02-05-2005, 19:27

Unless Graham comes on the site to give us his side of the story then decide for yourselves to use a phrase Graham uses often "in my honest opinion", the info I posted was correct and also "in my honest opinion", I suspect that he has been advised to lay of the controversial stuff and not post until after the election. I have taken a lot of crap over my recent postings and I'm genuinely upset if I caused Graham any trouble but in future I'm still going to post what I see and hear along with my opinions if I know it's true, unless I'm banned.

Sparkologist · 02-05-2005, 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by pendy

To say "This is my opinion. Therefore I am right and you are wrong" is not socialism, not conservatism, it is simply and solely fascism. Fascism is not the prerogative of the right wing. It exists whenever and wherever a sector of the population say that what they believe is right, anything else is wrong. It is a short step to saying "It is wrong and therefore it should be punished". Then follows: If you do not say what I believe, then you are wrong and should be silenced...

THIS SITE IS FOR EVERYONE, REGARDLESS OF POLITICAL, SOCIAL OR RELIGIOUS BELIEF. And yes, on this occasion, I am shouting!

So, Councillor Jones, you are entitled to whatever views you choose to subscribe to, but do not take the moral high ground with the rest of us who do not necessarily wholeheartedly follow you.

You are quite right to shout, Pendy.
Some of Graham Jones' statements calling us fascists, reminds me of reading of McCarthyism, in 1950's America. It is politics by scare tactics.

I agree with some of the things Councillor Jones says and I disagree with other of his opinions. Does that make me half right, or half wrong. Or because I don't agree 100% with Mr Jones, does that make me 100% wrong?

fireman · 08-05-2005, 19:42

Well said acertun if we aall stood up for what we believe in and say exactly what we mean without fear of reprisal then I'm sure things would move along better and the world would (eventually) be a better place to live in that we would all know where we stood and what to expect.

WillowTheWhisp · 08-05-2005, 22:58

Once we've all aired our views we also have to be prepared to compromise because we can't hope to please all of the people all of the time but if we can please most of the people most of the time then it's not a bad situation. Even if only a few disagree they still have a right to their opinion as long as they accept that in the end in a civilised democracy the best we can hope for is to compromise with a willing heart and a gracious smile.

It's the feeling of being rode over roughshod that gets people's backs up.

Whatever is decided there will still be people muttering and grumbling about it in years to come but that's human nature and not exclusive to AccyWeb.

Graham Jones · 08-05-2005, 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Once we've all aired our views we also have to be prepared to compromise because we can't hope to please all of the people all of the time but if we can please most of the people most of the time then it's not a bad situation. Even if only a few disagree they still have a right to their opinion as long as they accept that in the end in a civilised democracy the best we can hope for is to compromise with a willing heart and a gracious smile.

It's the feeling of being rode over roughshod that gets people's backs up.

Whatever is decided there will still be people muttering and grumbling about it in years to come but that's human nature and not exclusive to AccyWeb.

I agree totally. And I have noticed name calling and personal remarks or attacks have decreased a lot recently. This thread start itself if neither adult or civilised. Thanks for posting this comment.

Graham Jones · 08-05-2005, 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by pendy

I'm not sure if Councillor Jones is aware of this, but he is in a difficult position when it comes to the laws of libel to say that there is an OFFICIAL BNP site where, if his name is published, his home could be firebombed. There is also the fact that, since he appears on a site naming extreme left-wing people, and given that he is a councillor - ergo his name and address have to be available to the electorate - he is being just the tiniest bit over-dramatic here. Having spent a year or so living with a man who was on an IRA hitlist - simply because he was a British diplomat at consular level (the IRA go through the current consular lists, easily available, and target at random - but they always seem to let 5 know) I don't feel the same degree of drama.

Let us be clear about this: GJ has his opinion. Tealeaf has his opinion. Vorlon has his (I think! - I am assuming gender here!) opinion. I have mine. All are valid. No-one is right, no-one is wrong. To say "This is my opinion. Therefore I am right and you are wrong" is not socialism, not conservatism, it is simply and solely fascism. Fascism is not the prerogative of the right wing. It exists whenever and wherever a sector of the population say that what they believe is right, anything else is wrong. It is a short step to saying "It is wrong and therefore it should be punished". Then follows: If you do not say what I believe, then you are wrong and should be silenced.

Heinrich Heine said of Hitler's beloved Third Reich in its early days, when contrary thought was being stamped out -

"If you begin by burning books, you will end by burning people".

THIS SITE IS FOR EVERYONE, REGARDLESS OF POLITICAL, SOCIAL OR RELIGIOUS BELIEF. And yes, on this occasion, I am shouting!

So, Councillor Jones, you are entitled to whatever views you choose to subscribe to, but do not take the moral high ground with the rest of us who do not necessarily wholeheartedly follow you.

Are you saying that personal insults and attacks are an acceptable form of free expression? You seem to be confusing adult civilised conversation with childish aggressive behaviour which I do find unacceptable and I object to unapologetically.

I am surprised as to why you are defending personal attacks and how does this improve free speech?

And would like to know where I said or implied implicitly "I am right you are wrong", and where you add everyone is entitled to their opinion in the same sentence, that does not make sense because you are arguing opposites.

As a committed anti-totalitarian it is ridiculous to suggest otherwise especially when I have said often either IMHO or I am not always right.

Accy Web should be fun and should be progressive. Not loutish, aggressive and a free speech killer with personal insults and attacks which occur occasionally and go unchecked.

acertun · 09-05-2005, 14:13

An opinion should be based on truth and facts. When either one is distorted or Quoted by bending either truth or fact then the opinion is either skewed or irrelevant to the argument. When you have something to say or express say it loudly and have the facts speak for them selves. Don't ever forget the oft quoted "The truth will set you free"

WillowTheWhisp · 10-05-2005, 00:03

If we are discussing whether or not we like the idea of a panopticon for example it isn't a case of telling the truth or not it's a case of voicing an opinion. There is a distinction.

acertun · 10-05-2005, 14:10

The opinion should be truthful and not slanted toward your personal point of view though. Also your feelings on the merits of the subject should not distort the facts to curry favour or win brownie points.

fireman · 11-05-2005, 11:27

I think that ones opinion, if truthful will always slant towards your personal piont of view otherwise you would not have an opinion. Youf feelings on the merit of a subject are your opinion, so a true opinion could never be used to curry favour or indeed brownie pionts. Sometimes though if you have and know that your opinion is bound to be controversial, then it is usually better kept to youself.