Councillors in Hyndburn - Are they fit for purpose? - Page 34

garinda · 09-04-2007, 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Less

So we have to be in gondolas' 'club' to get him to open up to us do we?

Well I'm glad that I don't seem to be a 'reasonable' chap, we don't need a secret society associated with accyweb.

Earlier I told him I loved him.

But alas, I'm still unenlightened.

g jones · 09-04-2007, 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Don't think a blue rinse would suit my quiff, dear. However, I assume you've come over all metaphorical and that you're expounding the theory that everyone who mistrusts the government is a dyed-in-the-wool Tory. If that were true, old Matey Dave would be cracking open the bottles of champers right now. What you don't seem to appreciate is that cynicism about this deceitful administration which, amongst other things, lied to us in order to take us into an unnecessary and disastrous war stretches right across the political divide.

And yes, you're right I wasn't in the cupboard - I've better things to do with my time than listen to the weasel words of a third-rate politician grubbing for votes. Why, did I miss anything?

But you ARE a dyed in the wool Tory...

You can espouse your blue case, I don't mind that, but don't have more front than Blackpool and try to hide it. You make me laugh.

andrewb · 09-04-2007, 10:57

You say it like being a Tory is a bad thing. Regardless of if he is or not, theres a wide spectrum of views on the Conservative party as with every other party, so trying to say hes tory because he disagrees with certain Labour policy isnt quite right..

garinda · 09-04-2007, 11:27

I'm sure Wynonnie will speak for himself, but from reading his past posts he's a disillusioned ex-Labour supporter, not a Tory.

claytonender · 09-04-2007, 13:01

What needs to addressed are the changes to the workings of the commitees within HBC, which PD has implemented. Does anyone know how to get into the complete minutes of full council meetings and cabinet meetings.

Also, I think it might be possible to send a letter to the Mayor, to be read out before a council meeting stating what you are questoning about the correct runiing of HBC by the current controlling group. The controlling group (PB - the dicator and his co-horts), only have a majority of 1, there are currently 16 Labour Councillors, 18 Conservative Councillors and 1 Indpendent (who is so Independent that he has signed the nomination papers of a Conservative Candidate). It makes one wonder how they would behave if they had an overwhelming majority.
The next full council meeting is April 24th

g jones · 09-04-2007, 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyfr

You say it like being a Tory is a bad thing. Regardless of if he is or not, theres a wide spectrum of views on the Conservative party as with every other party, so trying to say hes tory because he disagrees with certain Labour policy isnt quite right..

Laughing. I would like to believe being a Tory IS a bad thing but of course it isn't. My father in law is a Conservative as are other family members.

Attack the government, no problem. Don't go OTT. Some Labour haters I do expect to see around town with a sandwich board, CONSERVATIVE VOTER on one side and THE END OF THE WORLD IS NIGH on the other. Britain is still a great place despite it's problems, some of which have happened under Labour and Blair.

g jones · 09-04-2007, 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

I'm sure Wynonnie will speak for himself, but from reading his past posts he's a disillusioned ex-Labour supporter, not a Tory.

I didn't know this. It is just a constant stream of partisan attacks on true socialists he knows nothing of.

Wynonie Harris · 09-04-2007, 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones

I didn't know this. It is just a constant stream of partisan attacks on true socialists he knows nothing of.

You mean true socialists like Tony Blair and Harriet Harman?

Graham, it must be nice to have your view of politics...you're not in my gang, so you must be in their gang...you're criticizing a Labour government, so you must be a Tory. What you can't seem to get your head around is that many people dislike and distrust this government who are not Tories, either because they're the disillusioned ex-Labour voters that Gary talks about or they're people whose views don't fall neatly along party lines.

I don't want to bore you too much with my political views, but here's a few...

I believe in scrapping tuition fees - does YOUR government?

I believe we shouldn't introduce a new generation of Trident nuclear weapons - does YOUR government?

I believe that we should never have got involved in the disastrous and wasteful (in terms of both lives and money) war in Iraq...does YOUR government?

I believe that the railways should be taken back into state ownership and subsidised to encourage more motorists to switch to rail travel...does YOUR government?

I believe that the NHS should be run for the benefit of the public, instead of being used as a cash cow by various private companies...does YOUR government?

I believe in blocking tax loopholes for the wealthy such as the one which allows rich foreign nationals to qualify as domiciled abroad, even though they live here, effectively ensuring that they pay tax on a small portion of their income...does YOUR government?

I even believe that asylum seekers who genuinely fear for their lives in their home countries should be allowed to stay here which I'm sure is enough to get me hung, drawn and quartered by many on here!

The only beliefs I can think of that have a blue tinge to them are law and order on which I will quite happily admit to being slightly to the right of Genghis Khan, a deep distrust of the EU (a distrust which is also shared by Tony Benn) and a general dislike of the whole PC-obsessed, chattering class, chic radical culture.

And, yes, Graham, I'm well aware that Britain is still a great place, as I've visited third world countries many times and I realise that we're very lucky to live in one of the most prosperous countries in the world. However, I don't see why that should stop me attacking what I perceive to be incompetence and dishonesty by the present government. If the Tories were in power, I'm sure I'd be doing the same thing to them!

And, yes, Graham I'm well aware that my views don't really add up to a coherent political philosophy, but we all have contradictions in our belief-systems. After all, you're a socialist and you support Tony Blair!

So, you see, Graham, a blue rinse wouldn't really be appropriate...perhaps more of pink hue instead?

garinda · 09-04-2007, 17:53

Wow. The above post is about the best one I've ever read on Accy Web.

g jones · 09-04-2007, 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

You mean true socialists like Tony Blair and Harriet Harman?

Graham, it must be nice to have your view of politics...you're not in my gang, so you must be in their gang...you're criticizing a Labour government, so you must be a Tory. What you can't seem to get your head around is that many people dislike and distrust this government who are not Tories, either because they're the disillusioned ex-Labour voters that Gary talks about or they're people whose views don't fall neatly along party lines.

I don't want to bore you too much with my political views, but here's a few...

I believe in scrapping tuition fees - does YOUR government?

I believe we shouldn't introduce a new generation of Trident nuclear weapons - does YOUR government?

I believe that we should never have got involved in the disastrous and wasteful (in terms of both lives and money) war in Iraq...does YOUR government?

I believe that the railways should be taken back into state ownership and subsidised to encourage more motorists to switch to rail travel...does YOUR government?

I believe that the NHS should be run for the benefit of the public, instead of being used as a cash cow by various private companies...does YOUR government?

I believe in blocking tax loopholes for the wealthy such as the one which allows rich foreign nationals to qualify as domiciled abroad, even though they live here, effectively ensuring that they pay tax on a small portion of their income...does YOUR government?

I even believe that asylum seekers who genuinely fear for their lives in their home countries should be allowed to stay here which I'm sure is enough to get me hung, drawn and quartered by many on here!

The only beliefs I can think of that have a blue tinge to them are law and order on which I will quite happily admit to being slightly to the right of Genghis Khan, a deep distrust of the EU (a distrust which is also shared by Tony Benn) and a general dislike of the whole PC-obsessed, chattering class, chic radical culture.

And, yes, Graham, I'm well aware that Britain is still a great place, as I've visited third world countries many times and I realise that we're very lucky to live in one of the most prosperous countries in the world. However, I don't see why that should stop me attacking what I perceive to be incompetence and dishonesty by the present government. If the Tories were in power, I'm sure I'd be doing the same thing to them!

And, yes, Graham I'm well aware that my views don't really add up to a coherent political philosophy, but we all have contradictions in our belief-systems. After all, you're a socialist and you support Tony Blair!

So, you see, Graham, a blue rinse wouldn't really be appropriate...perhaps more of pink hue instead?

First - apologies - I have never read your posts where you have been anything other than 'what appears' to be in bed with the 'sandwich board bridgade'. So I apologise and thanks for the above post in which I agree with Garinda, it was candid and honest and I for one am grateful. I would like to add I disagree with all of it...

... but I don't. I think you are right on most points in my view, I'd wouldn't go that far on Law & Order and I am happy with New Labour in what they have done with L&O. (please no Tories on this point - you've lost the real debate but you HAVE WON the newspaper one) And you missed off Social Housing, Reregulation of transport and so on...

The Labour Party will be here long after Tony has gone. It will be the Labour Party that members want it to be. I am disapointed that some members have left because they have given up the fight for what they believe in the face of a different Labour persuasion. The Labour Party started off as a broad coalition and unlike Conservatism always will be.

Life is full of seeming contradictions. I voted for Blair and Labour and continue to be a loyal party member because I believe a Blair government represents a better alternate, a better future chance for this country than the others. That is something completely different than wholehearted endorsement.

I also think politics is media driven. Major fixed the economy eventually, not Brown, but Major got blamed. And vice versa somewhat now. Blair is not the evil one the media agenda has him down for. When we vilify/crucify our leaders (instead of discussing honestly) we deride our country.

Margaret Pilkington · 09-04-2007, 19:58

but isn't that how we do things in this country? We set people up, big them up, make them believe that they can do no wrong......and when we perceive they have success...we take a pop at them. And yes you are right it IS all media driven.

WillowTheWhisp · 09-04-2007, 20:03

I think I agree with everything in Wynonie's post - apart from the bit about Genghis Khan because I'm not too sure what his policies were.

Gayle · 09-04-2007, 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones

First - apologies - I have never read your posts where you have been anything other than 'what appears' to be in bed with the 'sandwich board bridgade'. So I apologise and thanks for the above post in which I agree with Garinda, it was candid and honest and I for one am grateful. I would like to add I disagree with all of it...

... but I don't. I think you are right on most points in my view, I'd wouldn't go that far on Law & Order and I am happy with New Labour in what they have done with L&O. (please no Tories on this point - you've lost the real debate but you HAVE WON the newspaper one) And you missed off Social Housing, Reregulation of transport and so on...

The Labour Party will be here long after Tony has gone. It will be the Labour Party that members want it to be. I am disapointed that some members have left because they have given up the fight for what they believe in the face of a different Labour persuasion. The Labour Party started off as a broad coalition and unlike Conservatism always will be.

Life is full of seeming contradictions. I voted for Blair and Labour and continue to be a loyal party member because I believe a Blair government represents a better alternate, a better future chance for this country than the others. That is something completely different than wholehearted endorsement.

I also think politics is media driven. Major fixed the economy eventually, not Brown, but Major got blamed. And vice versa somewhat now. Blair is not the evil one the media agenda has him down for. When we vilify/crucify our leaders (instead of discussing honestly) we deride our country.

Wynonie - I hope that Graham's answer also clarifys why I continue to say that I am involved with local politics and not national ones. I completely believe in the local Labour party - the national one I'm a bit iffy with.

steeljack · 09-04-2007, 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

Wynonie - I hope that Graham's answer also clarifys why I continue to say that I am involved with local politics and not national ones. I completely believe in the local Labour party - the national one I'm a bit iffy with.

Gayle , I suppose what you are saying is a bit like a German in 38 , "I like the full employment and the new roads but I'm iffy on the jewish problem "

Gayle · 09-04-2007, 20:29

Not quite!

What I'm saying is that local politics is very different to national politics and I can support the local party without being a huge fan of the current national one.