Crackpot Christian's Crackheads and Criminals Crap on Council - Page 5

Tealeaf · 02-10-2005, 14:51

This is one occaision when messrs Britcliffe & Hayes may have got it right. The entire thing stinks of cover-up and conspiracy. For starters, what do we know about this church? According to the Observer, they managed to raise one hundred and forty thousand quid in one day alone a few years back.
Does that remind you of anything? I doubt very much that that amount of dosh is lying around in loose change in Ossy...it seems to me that the only way that can be done is if people pledge their houses & their assets. Well, there are precedents for that and they are usually associated with obscure & extreme religious sects that play on the weak & the vulnerable.
Who remembers Waco, Koresh and the Branch Davidians? The parallels with that lot in Ossy are frightening, starting with taking over an old factory as their Church HQ and then fleecing the congregation for every penny they've got. And who was their congregation? A motley collection of half-wit locals, brain-washed kids and ex-cons & druggies.
Well, at least the federal authorities were fully aware of the danger of these characters, and I would like to think that our own are keeping an eye on this lot in Ossy. I do not know how someone like Garinda would cope should he wake one morning to the sound of Helicopter Gunships overhead and men in Balaclavas absailing through his bedroom window in order to get a better tactical position.
Alas, it appears that some of our own authorities (local prisions, Riddings school, Accy College) are actively conniving with them in some form of social experiment while attempting to keep the local population & its elected representives in blissful ignorance. It would seem to me there is now only one action the council can take and that is to deny planning permission for any of their schemes, whatever they say they may be for, and for the rest of us to tell this character Jackson and his followers exactly where to go.

Margaret Pilkington · 02-10-2005, 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparkologist

I have not had time to read any of this thread, but the title certainly caught my eye. Mr T, Sir; that is hell of a piece of alliteration!

Oh..... Sparkologist......I was just going to say that!

Gayle · 12-10-2005, 09:48

I've found out a little more about this scheme and this church and as usual it looks like the local papers have made a mountain out of a molehill.

I called into the church on spec and asked about the project and they were more than pleased to tell me all about it. There was no secrecy or cover up involved and they let me read all their documents on the subject and showed me around. Anyone could do the same! I know for a fact that a couple of representatives from the Labour party phoned up and visited the place this week to be briefed, I'm sure the Conservatives could have done exactly the same without the sensationalist approach.

The project is called RESTORE, it is about rehabillitating ex offenders or ex drug users. Currently, the have 10 people on the project (not 100s like you've been led to believe). All of them had drug or alcohol problems (NO paedophiles) which led to a life of crime. These 10 people are now clean of drugs and therefore, no longer likely to go back to criminal ways. They are being helped to get jobs, sort out accommodation or find a college course. One example that I was told about was a young man who's now studying at Acc & Ross college - the church has bought him the education and the tools that he'll need to get him back on his feet. They also provide one on one mentors to support the people on the project, to provide friendship and to help them stay away from the people who led them into drugs in the first place.

All of the people who are on the project are people who lived in Hyndburn before they went to prison (no one is being imported from anywhere else).

So what's better - these people get sucked into a life of drugs and crime, go to prison then when they return they're just left to stroll right back into the same lifestyle - or they come out of prison onto this project and get their lifes back in order?

As you know, I'm not a particularly religious person but I have to say that this church looks like it's doing some good work in the community. They have a regular 300 people attending services (this is at a time when attendances at church are dwindling), the run toddler and parent groups, after school clubs, support for deprived families, help elderly people etc. We should be looking to support this type of thing and not passing them off as crackpot christians.

One thing that I particularly liked when I was shown around was the number of teenagers that are involved. At a time when Oswaldtwistle is really struggling with a teenage problem to see so many young people helping out as volunteers is a fantastic thing. Apparently these are people who have given up their 'gap' year to help run the place.

Lampman · 12-10-2005, 10:06

Thanks Gayle for posting that,the only point I don't agree with is the fact that the church is not importing people.As I said in an earlier posting I attended the meeting,the idea was to relocate ex offenders away from their previous haunts and contacts.
So in this aspect they are indeed importing(and exporting to the York area.)
To reiterate the people at the church are do gooders in the most positive meaning of the phrase,unfortunately the ex offenders cannot just blend in to church life.The old influences will always we waiting for them.
Good luck to them and those that seek to help them,but it will be an uphill struggle to convince the general public of the needs of the few out weighing the concerns of the many!

lettie · 12-10-2005, 10:13

It's good that they were so open with their information, but I have to agree with Lampman. Bringing people back to their old areas who may encounter old aquaintances is rarely a good idea. A lot of Drug Action Teams will look at ways of moving addicts and former addicts away from their old haunts and old friends. This has been proved to be helpful to those wishing to keep clean. I wish them luck with the project and hope that it is a success.

Gayle · 12-10-2005, 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lampman

Thanks Gayle for posting that,the only point I don't agree with is the fact that the church is not importing people.As I said in an earlier posting I attended the meeting,the idea was to relocate ex offenders away from their previous haunts and contacts.
So in this aspect they are indeed importing(and exporting to the York area.)
To reiterate the people at the church are do gooders in the most positive meaning of the phrase,unfortunately the ex offenders cannot just blend in to church life.The old influences will always we waiting for them.
Good luck to them and those that seek to help them,but it will be an uphill struggle to convince the general public of the needs of the few out weighing the concerns of the many!

Well I can only go of what I was told yesterday which was that everyone who is on the project had a connection with Hyndburn before, i.e. lived here or was born here.

Relocating them from their old haunts does not necessarily mean a long distance, it can be a matter of moving someone from Huncoat to Oswaldtwistle for example - just as long as they are not in contact with their old druggy friends.

Yes, the old influences will always be there waiting for them but as I said, surely it is more positive to help them find new influences than to let them walk out of prison and hook up with the old influences again.

Gayle · 12-10-2005, 10:23

PS - I am reporting all of this without judgement. I'm not defending them or taking up their cause, I'm simply telling you all what I know.

Tealeaf · 12-10-2005, 11:06

Well,for once I managed to pick up a hard copy of the Observer last weekend. Surprise, surpise...what was in the correspondence column? Letter after letter from various ministers pontificating their holier-than-thou do-gooding drivel. 'Enough is enough', I said, slinging the said paper away, 'at least when I get back to the Accy Web, I shall read postings from people with some common sense.

So what now do I find on here? Nothing less than the same old crap. Come on people, get into the real world...do you honestly think that a few dozen happy-clappy born-again lets-be-nice-to-the-scum Christians are going to reform these characters?The odd one saved,maybe....but in the numbers they seem to be so busy in concealing, no, no, no.

In a few months - or even a few weeks time - someone here will return home after a hard day at work. They will notice their front door suspiciously adjar, and they will then enter their home to find it thrashed, with something horrible in the bath to boot. Well, I'll know who to blame...but will you?

Lampman · 12-10-2005, 11:25

Point taken Gayle,I suppose its the old story I have put my own slant of perception on the message that was broadcast at the meeting.Let's hope for the best and perhaps all will be well.It will be interesting to see developements 12 months down the road.

Gayle · 12-10-2005, 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tealeaf

Well,for once I managed to pick up a hard copy of the Observer last weekend. Surprise, surpise...what was in the correspondence column? Letter after letter from various ministers pontificating their holier-than-thou do-gooding drivel. 'Enough is enough', I said, slinging the said paper away, 'at least when I get back to the Accy Web, I shall read postings from people with some common sense.

So what now do I find on here? Nothing less than the same old crap. Come on people, get into the real world...do you honestly think that a few dozen happy-clappy born-again lets-be-nice-to-the-scum Christians are going to reform these characters?The odd one saved,maybe....but in the numbers they seem to be so busy in concealing, no, no, no.

In a few months - or even a few weeks time - someone here will return home after a hard day at work. They will notice their front door suspiciously adjar, and they will then enter their home to find it thrashed, with something horrible in the bath to boot. Well, I'll know who to blame...but will you?

Why are you so sure they are concealing the numbers? Do you have facts to back that statement up?

garinda · 12-10-2005, 11:42

We already have drug addicts in Oswaldtwistle, like there are throughout Hyndburn, and from what I remember there are even more in London.

I would rather have someone living next door to me who was trying to turn their life around, and who is supported by someone, even if it is a happy clappy Christian.

Like other people posted earlier, it's the people who you don't know about that are much more of a threat. They are obviously better at crime because they never got caught.

SPUGGIE J · 12-10-2005, 12:18

Got to agree with G over the ones that we dont know about. We have supposed secure access yet there is trouble at weekends and to make it worse there are kids in this block so I was shocked to find a hyperdermic needle that was used in the close. The councils answer is they cannot do anything without proof but by then its too late. I would take the christian at least it would be safer i hope.

Tealeaf · 12-10-2005, 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

PS - I am reporting all of this without judgement. I'm not defending them or taking up their cause, I'm simply telling you all what I know.

Is this not the crux of this thread? It is not what you know, it is what you have been told - just as it is not what we know, but what we have read. Surely the simple fact is that our bible-bashing chums, went ahead, (without any public discussion or placing their intentions in the public domain), in instituting a secretive criminal rehabilitation scheme

Furthermore, it appears they are in the process of attempting to expand this scheme and again in doing so, neither the council, the local populace nor the press were consulted or invited. That smacks to me of a cover-up and any sensible person can only ask why.
They have admitted that 10-ex-cons are currently involved, but no number has been given for their expanded scheme. Why? If they are so confident, why don't they come up with some numbers? What are they holding back?

Gayle · 12-10-2005, 18:08

I will return to what I said about secrecy. They were perfectly open with me. Also, now it is out in the open so's to speak it can no longer be called secretive. They decided to make it open and tell everyone about it, which they have done.

Plus, they have come up with numbers - 10! So why are you so sure there are more?

WillowTheWhisp · 12-10-2005, 22:30

I'd much rather have ex-drug addicts who are doing their best to reform than the ones who have no intention of doing so. I think the latter (who are already amongst us, and probably responsible for our break-in and countless others, to fund their habit) are far more worrying.

There is no way we are going to be addict free because they exist. They are all around us. I was speaking to someone yesterday who has been off drugs for over a year now and who has moved away from old haunts to keep away from the people who may drag them back into their old habits. I wish them luck. No-one can undo their past but they deserve encouragement for trying to build a better future.