Cram it all in!

Acrylic-bob · 25-07-2005, 06:53

I notice in passing that plans are in development to change St James' Church in Accrington. The Vicar, David Lyon, who styles himself "Father" (when did Anglican vicars begin adopting Roman titles,) announced that plans for the church will include the following:

A Worship Centre

Counselling rooms (Note the plural)

Meeting rooms

Heritage Exhibition

Office

Cafe

Gift Shop

Resource Centre.

It seems an awful lot to cram into such a small building. The wonder is that there will be any room left for parishioners.

And can someone please tell me what a "Worship Centre" is and how it might be different from what is already on offer at present. Or is this just another case of changing the name in the forlorn hope of generating increased appeal or relevance.

Oh, and by the way, the diocese is so strapped for cash that is it considering closing a number of local churches, but it can still manage to come up with a cool half a million pounds for this bit of redecorating!

This pleading poverty lark is begining to wear a bit thin don't you think?

grego · 25-07-2005, 08:32

I personally cant see the point in that, seem like a waste of money to me.

Mick · 25-07-2005, 08:37

Is ST JAMSES not a listed building i thought it was,
and if they have to extend to add all the extra rooms,is the graveyard still in use ?

cashman · 25-07-2005, 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by mick

Is ST JAMSES not a listed building i thought it was,
and if they have to extend to add all the extra rooms,is the graveyard still in use ?

yeh mick theres still a few resting there lol

garinda · 25-07-2005, 12:06

St. James's is an importrant landmark in Accrington. Without spoiling any of the historical or architectural treasures, it seems a good idead to me. Whalley has something similar why can't we.? It always seems to be busy, and we are always moaning about loosing out in the tourist stakes to the Ribble Valley.

As for where the funding is coming from, the Church of England is still one of the richest bodies in the country. Perhaps other churches in the diocese that are under threat of closure are more likely the victims of under attendance. Supply and demand.

WillowTheWhisp · 25-07-2005, 12:34

Perhaps the closure of churches has more to do with the number of people who attend them than the financial status of the C of E.

I do hope that whatever is done to St. James' doesn't change the outward appearance as it is such a pleasant building there in the centre of town. Presumably if it is a listed building then they won't be able to alter much.

If they have a small congregation it makes sense to "shrink" the worship area and make use of the rest of the interior space by creating other rooms for other purposes within the existing framework.

That is what Cannon St Baptist church did when they sold off the old Willow Street Sunday School. The chapel/church part was huge with a balcony which was never used and it was subsequently altered inside to accomodate the schoolrooms.

What's happening to Cannon St anyway? Some time ago we were being told it was being closed down but this summer my daughter has been invited to join their youth club? She didn't accept because she already goes to one.

I may be behind the times but I thought Father David Lyon was the vicar of St Peter's. Has he moved or does he have responsibility for both?

I don't think it's uncommon for C of E vicars to be addressed as Father. He looks very priestlike. They have rosary beads for sale in Blackburn Cathedral and that's C of E but very similar to RC.

T.C. · 25-07-2005, 16:18

As a practising Anglican of many decades.the title of Father for the serving Incumbant always has been and it is is not a "Roman Title". I served as treasurer at St. James Church for ten years, retiring at the age 0f 70. and now serve the Church as Verger and Sacristan. In the Anglican Church Father Lyon is not a vicar but a Priest. Referring to St. James Accrington, Father Lyon is Priest in charge of a team of priests caring for St. Peters, St. James Accrington, St. Andrews, and St, Mary Magdalen. We refer to ourselves as Anglican Catholics,and the service in our church being almost identical to that in the Roman Church.
When Sacred Heart RC Church was pulled down, many of the worshippers from there came to Church Kirk, and feeling comfortable and identifying with the similarity of the service. I hope this gives you a little enlightenment to the whyfors of the Anglican Church. T.C.

cashman · 25-07-2005, 16:21

thats sorted that one out t.c. nice one

Acrylic-bob · 25-07-2005, 16:28

Thank you for taking the time and trouble to correct my misapprehensions, TC. I am indeed much enlightened as a result.

Though, sadly, the question of the why and wherefore of "Worship Centre" remains a bit of a puzzle.

WillowTheWhisp · 25-07-2005, 16:35

I think I understand what they mean by worship centre.

The whole building is St. James' church and within that building are going to be a lot of different bits.

We have one church building and inside it are a lot of different bits, school rooms, offices, kitchen etc. In th middle we have the "churchy" bit where the worship takes place and we call it the chapel. Quite often people refer to the whole building as the chapel too so it can get a bit confusing. It seems to me like they are just trying to make a distinction between the bit that will be used for church services and all the other bits that won't by giving that a separate name because by saying "the church" it could mean the whole of the building.

Acrylic-bob · 25-07-2005, 17:45

Returning to the use of the title it seems that it dates from the late 1830's and the Oxford Movement and was appropriated by Froude and Newman as part of their attempts to recreate and resurrect the primitive christianity of these islands which resulted from their dissatisfaction with Presbyterianism.

I don't know why, but I have never been quite convinced about Newman, though many hold him to be a very saintly man. It is odd that such an influential Catholic convert has not yet been beatified. Perhaps Rome knows more than we do? There are often very good reasons for these sorts of oversights.

garinda · 25-07-2005, 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob

Returning to the use of the title it seems that it dates from the late 1830's and the Oxford Movement and was appropriated by Froude and Newman as part of their attempts to recreate and resurrect the primitive christianity of these islands which resulted from their dissatisfaction with Presbyterianism.

I don't know why, but I have never been quite convinced about Newman, though many hold him to be a very saintly man. It is odd that such an influential Catholic convert has not yet been beatified. Perhaps Rome knows more than we do? There are often very good reasons for these sorts of oversights.

Although Cardinal Newman was highly regarded by many, his personal life, from what l have been told, may be the answer why he hasn't been beatified.