Creationism versus Evolution

[WillowTheWhisp]

Just wanted to reply very quickly to this statement:

How many Muslim children attend a Catholic or Church of England school? None!


There are certainly more than none who go to Mount Carmel just up the road from me. I see them coming and going in their school uniform.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by garinda

I use more than you lot anyway, especially when I have to go astro-planing back to my own planet.

I thought you were from a different reality not planet

[jambutty]

Interesting view of the world in biblical times West Ender. It could well be right. However as the flood was supposed to have covered the mountains to a depth of 15 cubits it is difficult to accept that the rest of the world wouldn’t have been affected also. To the north west is the Mediterranean Sea with an opening to the Atlantic, to the south is the Red Sea with an opening to the Indian Ocean/Pacific Ocean and to the east is the Persian Gulf also emptying into the Indian Ocean. The Zargos Mountains in Persia peak at some 9,000 feet and much of the land in the Middle East is some 1,000 feet above sea level. That's an awful lot of water to stay put in the Middle East.

But it is a myth that Noah took on board a breeding pair of each animal. He allegedly took on board 7 animals of a species if they were deemed to be clean animals and only a breeding pair of those animals that were classed as unclean.

OK! I hold my hand up Muslim children do attend Christian schools. But how many Christian children attend Muslim schools?

However we seem to have slid off the topic.

[Neil]

So where did all this water go too then

[jambutty]

I’ve no idea Neil. I’m not that old.

My point is that you can have localised flooding even to quite a depth but not to a depth of over 9,000 feet without the rest of the world also being flooded to a similar depth.

The other point is that some people take the Bible as Gospel but at best it is just hearsay.

[West Ender]

OK JB, point taken (stop ruining my best theories, you spoilsport).

There really is evidence of a flood there but I haven't heard of any about the rest of the world. How about a Tsunami then?

[jambutty]

Sorry about that West Ender.

I have also read about the evidence of a local flood in the Middle East but it couldn’t possibly have been to the extent that the Bible makes out.

“Yes it could” I can hear the Creationists cry out. “God held back the waters from the rest of the world.”

Then why does the Bible also state that ALL life on the world was destroyed and only Noah and Co were left to start again?

Oh! Heck! I'm beginning to argue with myself!

[JohnW]

Where is all this water supposed to have come from? Then when the alleged flood subsided, where did the water go to. There's only so much water on the earth and around the earth in cloud form, I doubt there's enough to cover mountains, even if both icecaps melted.

[WillowTheWhisp]

What kind of ever loving, all forgiving, all-powerful wonderful father figure, would condemn his sons and daughters to an eternity in hell which is supposed to be the worst place you could possibly imagine. I would not wish that upon my children no matter what they did. Let them be punished for things they do wrong most certainly, but an ETERNITY IN HELL. I don't think so. Where is this 'turn the other cheek' attitude we all hear so much about? The quality of mercy etc.?

But he doesn't condemn us to an eternity in Hell. That's what the Atonement is all about. Jesus took upon himself the sins of the world so that those of us who believe in him and accept his sacrifice do not have to suffer eternity in Hell. That is where justice and mercy meet, at the cross on Calvary.

However each generation seems to be that bit brighter than the previous one and also developing faster too. My newest granddaughter got her first two teeth at 8 months. This was unheard of 50 years ago, although it seems to be commonplace today. At one year she is walking unaided. OK! So it’s more of a stagger from support to support but kids in my day were considered forward if they were walking at 18 months. Look how tall kids are today compared to the average height 50 years ago.

I got my first 2 teeth when I was 6 minths old and I was walking at 12 months, although I subsequently suffered an illness and than set me back a bit as I had to relearn and so wasn't fully up and running until I was about 18 months old. THis was over 50 years ago. As for people growing taller and developing earlier etc I believe that is more down to nutrition than evolution. If a child is malnourished that child will not grow and develop as well as a child which gets fed properly. Some races which have always previously been thought of as small seem to be taller these days because they are eating a greater variety of food. I also noticed that the Masai don't seem to be as tall as they used to seem to be. Is this regression or a change of diet and lifestyle?

Noah was commanded to build a boat 300 cubits long. As I understand it a cubit was the equivalent of 18 inches. So the Ark would be 450 feet in length. Clean animals were boarded in groups of 7 and unclean animals in groups of 2. Now how much room would 7 elephants take? Not forgetting all the other larger animals. Then there is the feed for those animals for a minimum of 40 days. Sorry but the figures just don’t add up.

The "clean" animals were the ones which they used for food. I'm not aware of any instances in the Bible where they eat elephants.

There are accounts of a great deluge in the middle east on those Sumerian clay tablets that I mentioned earlier. They predate the writings in the Bible so they can't be accused of copying from Genesis or of having been written by Jews or Christians. They are older than any Egyptian heiroglyphics. So something definitely happened in that region.

[Mancie]

I was watching some wildlife prog the other day where a mini sub went down 1000's of metres under the sea, there's some fish down there(angler fish i think) anyway these fish have got a very long sort of antenne with a flourecent bit on the end it uses as bait to lure its prey, the narrator told us it had taken millions of years to evolve this. just wondering how it ate during those millions of years until it grew the lure???

[simon]

Originally Posted by Mancie

I was watching some wildlife prog the other day where a mini sub went down 1000's of metres under the sea, there's some fish down there(angler fish i think) anyway these fish have got a very long sort of antenne with a flourecent bit on the end it uses as bait to lure its prey, the narrator told us it had taken millions of years to evolve this. just wondering how it ate during those millions of years until it grew the lure???

Jambutty will convince you that he has the answer

[SPUGGIE J]

If you want to consider Noah and his Ark then the Black Sea was not always a sea and considering its proximity to the biblical lands then who knows. Rember at the end of the last ice age people where in the biblical area and as the sea rose then this would be seen as an omen. If it was me in that situ I would get out any way I could including a big boat.

[garinda]

I take it Adam and Eve must have been Jewish, (did he come ready circumcised???) but when did the God, who created Heaven and Earth and all upon it, find time to create other religions, such as Hinduism, Paganism etc.?

[SPUGGIE J]

Originally Posted by garinda

I take it Adam and Eve must have been Jewish, (did he come ready circumcised???) but when did the God, who created Heaven and Earth and all upon it, find time to create other religions, such as Hinduism, Paganism etc.?

After a heavy session on the jungle juice.

[Mancie]

I reckon noah was a martian and there was global warming on mars and all the land was getting flooded, so the martians shipped all the creatures to earth, millions of years ago, then over millions of years mars froze, just like we would do in the next million years, simple!