danger danger

[cmonstanley]

looks like the li dems have got what thay wanted.this is dangerousand going to put lives in danger BBC News - Counter terrorism review set to be published. russia gets bombed we are in high alert and this what the great con dem goverment do

[Boeing Guy]

Well lets look at this logicically.
Being a terrorist target, as anyone in aviation is, I tend to get a bit more information from my union, The security services etc than most of us.

None of the moves put in place by the then government stopped some determined individuals driving their cars into airports back in 2007.
If we change our lives and start to change the way we live because we are in fear, then the terrorist has won.


The bombing in Russia was Chechens. Not al-qaeda.

We don't live in a police state, yet....

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by Boeing Guy

Well lets look at this logicically.
Being a terrorist target, as anyone in aviation is, I tend to get a bit more information from my union, The security services etc than most of us.

None of the moves put in place by the then government stopped some determined individuals driving their cars into airports back in 2007.
If we change our lives and start to change the way we live because we are in fear, then the terrorist has won.


The bombing in Russia was Chechens. Not al-qaeda.

We don't live in a police state, yet....

A few suicidal idiots have managed to make flying a much longer process than it ought to be and so I agree with your sentiments. Ten years ago I suspect most of us hadn't even considered the possibility of someone trying to blow up a plane, now it's right in our face every time we fly.

However, whilst standing in a very long queue at Nice airport last year it crossed my mind just how easy it would be to smuggle explosives onto a plane if you really put your mind to it. Security checks are for the good of all but a determined and imaginative bomber probably wouldn't have too much trouble sneaking something unpleasant onto an aeroplane.

Screaming 'high alert' constantly doesn't make things safer because people get numb to it but I still remain resentful of the people who have put the world in this situation, not the authorities trying to prevent it.

[Boeing Guy]

Ken, could not agree more. I am more conerned when I am queing 'landside' at a airport , than I am 'airside'.

Recently, I have seen many different attitudes towards security, from waiting over a hour to get my passport stamed in Delhi, body scanners here in the UK,to profiling by asking innocent questions in both Tel Aviv and Baghdad. At all places bags were scanned. yet in Israel we were processed a lot more quickly than here and felt much more secure as well at 'the worlds most secure airport'.
Shame we are too blind to introduce it here

[Margaret Pilkington]

I regularly flew all over the world(OK,perhaps not as regularly as Boeing Guy).......I stopped flying when security measures meant that I was treated like a terrorist.

I am an elderly(though spry) lady.......unlikely to have anything in my water bottle other than water.....so why treat me as a terrorist?
OK...someone out there is going to say 'What does a terrorist look like?'.......and althouh I can not give a comprehensive answer to that question, I know that we are going about it the wrong way.
There has to be a better way than what we have now. And as distasteful as it is(to some people), we have to look at profiling.

Boeing Guy has posted some very salient posts about what happens at Ben Gurion airport........one that, theoretically would be at great risk, yet their way of handling travelling public is effective and non intrusive as it could possibly be......why is this? Because they operate a form of profiling.

I will not travel by air again until I am treated in the manner to which I can relate.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I am an elderly(though spry) lady.......unlikely to have anything in my water bottle other than water.....so why treat me as a terrorist?

Because you would be the perfect terrorist for the reasons you stated.

[Boeing Guy]

And the really clever thing going on in Ben Gurion, is that they ask innocent questions, like "where have you visited?", "where are you going to?", "Where did you stay?". Then they look at your eyes and facial expressions, this works and is not intrusive or any way racial.
Still...

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Neil

Because you would be the perfect terrorist for the reasons you stated.

And how many elderly white(dare I say it, non muslim) ladies do you know, who have blown up an airport/posed a threat to anyone, Neil?
I would hazard a guess that the answer is something like ZERO.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

And how many elderly white(dare I say it, non muslim) ladies do you know, who have blown up an airport/posed a threat to anyone, Neil?
I would hazard a guess that the answer is something like ZERO.

You could have said the same about people flying planes into tall buildings or making liquid bombs a few years ago.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

And how many elderly white(dare I say it, non muslim) ladies do you know, who have blown up an airport/posed a threat to anyone, Neil?
I would hazard a guess that the answer is something like ZERO.

Don't really think it's a good comparison, I get a feeling that most, if not all muslim women of your age aren't likely to be a terrorist threat either. In fact most Muslims of any age, (or colour), are probably no terrorist threat at all, just like with white people.
Though, there are exceptions that are a threat which is why everyone including you is checked.

[DaveinGermany]

Security always has & always will raise hackles, is it to much ? Is it to little ? Until terrorism & the threat of terrorism is eradicated we'll always be confronted with "aggravating" checks & hindrances at points of embarkation/disembarkation. It is a said fact of modern life but one we have to accept more & more as the norm.

Oh & just to remind C'mon of one little point he forgot about :-

Labour could back terror detention changes - UK Politics, UK - The Independent

Dear me C'mon, parity really isn't something you pay great attention to is it ?

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Less

Don't really think it's a good comparison, I get a feeling that most, if not all muslim women of your age aren't likely to be a terrorist threat either. In fact most Muslims of any age, (or colour), are probably no terrorist threat at all, just like with white people.
Though, there are exceptions that are a threat which is why everyone including you is checked.

Well, actually, no I'm not......checked, that is, because I have chosen not to fly anywhere.

And I do not agree that muslim women are not a threat(where are the thought police?)......muslim women are being recruited because they have not, in the past, been seen as a threat.

I think there must be better ways of ensuring security at airports than what we have at present

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Neil

You could have said the same about people flying planes into tall buildings or making liquid bombs a few years ago.

And isn't that where a lot of it started...but it wasn't white(non muslim) elderly ladies who perpetrated these atrocities on humanity......it was radicalised muslim men(I don't care what their colour was).

I am sure Boeing Guy could enlighten us to the most effective security...and he would probably tell you it is at an airport that, theoretically, should have the most invasive/intrusive security practices.....but doesn't require them because of intelligent and sensitive profiling...that is Ben Gurion airport.
If they can do it then why cannot it be adopted here? Maybe the governments of the day like to practise their own form of terrorism......a scared population is easier to manipulate.

I have always wanted to travel to New York...and was due to go in the November of the year that the twin towers were flown into........I cannot see me ever going now......I do not wish to be fingerprinted or have my biometric details held by another country. I have never done anything criminal and I do not wish to be treated like a criminal, just because I want to be a tourist.

[Boeing Guy]

There is a better way, but due to worries about insulting Muslims we do not yet have profiling. Even though it does not involve any racial profiling.
Of course the current system does at least look we are trying!

[cashman]

on the way home from our jollies last week, had to stop in Florida fer re-fuelling, was on the tarmac fer approx 1 hr, yet had to pay fer the privilege, seems they are now charging ya fer E.S.T.A.s ridiculous to me, understandable if yer leaving the aircraft, but fer sitting on it. as well as security OTT, by attitude in the USA now ripping ya off fer it.