Death of sex change teacher

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Judith Addison

So sad that any person should be driven to commit suicide! Everyone has a breaking point! There's only so much anyone can take!

Very true but do you know for sure what the cause of his suicide was? Many appear to be blaming the Daily Mail reporter, he was not the first to report it and our own Observer and Telegraph reported the story.

In my opinion he was let down by the system, by his head teacher and by the Education Authority. He needed help and it looks like he did not receive it.

I feel for those he left behind, especially his children and those that found him. Taking your own life is a very selfish thing to do to those you leave behind.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Neil

Very true but do you know for sure what the cause of his suicide was? Many appear to be blaming the Daily Mail reporter, he was not the first to report it and our own Observer and Telegraph reported the story.

In my opinion he was let down by the system, by his head teacher and by the Education Authority. He needed help and it looks like he did not receive it.

I feel for those he left behind, especially his children and those that found him. Taking your own life is a very selfish thing to do to those you leave behind.

For some one to take there own life, there is something very drastically wrong but your right Neil the Mail wasn't the only paper to run with this story.

[Margaret Pilkington]

She was an educated person........I'm sure it was a difficult transistion to make, but it is was what she chose to do....she must have thought that she could cope with the repercussions....and something that no-one has considered (or mentioned, if they have)...Lucy would have been on female hormonal supplements...these are known to affect mood....so they may have been to blame in some part.
I agree with what Neill has said to a great extent, but (being Devil's advocate) and trying to see it from the perspective of the School, the head teacher and the Education Authority....how many incidences will they have dealt with that come anywhere near close to this event........I think you can probably count it on the fingers of.......well maybe one finger. It is very easy to be wise after the event.........and we can all criticise, but until you have walked that road in bare feet, you know nothing much at all about it, to be qualified to criticise.
It is a very very sad outcome to what is a tragedy which will affect many people....and what makes it so much worse is that it seems that everyone thought highly of Lucy Meadows...but the question is, did they tell her?

[JCB]

This is the first time I have read that the cause of death was suicide .

It was less than a full school term since Lucy Meadows was at the school as Lucy Meadows , less than three months .

Before Christmas it was reported that she had the full support of the head teacher and the governors of the school in the decision she had taken .

I have said already on this thread that she was a brave person , and indeed she was .

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

...I agree with what Neil has said to a great extent, but (being Devil's advocate) and trying to see it from the perspective of the School, the head teacher and the Education Authority....how many incidences will they have dealt with that come anywhere near close to this event........I think you can probably count it on the fingers of.......well maybe one finger. It is very easy to be wise after the event.........and we can all criticise, but until you have walked that road in bare feet, you know nothing much at all about it, to be qualified to criticise.

I said I believe he was let down by the system and I still believe that.
If I said I thought I was a rabbit trapped in a mans body and wanted to dress in a fur suit and live in a burrow my Doctor would send me to see a head Doctor.

Why is a man that thinks he is a woman any different?
If you are like me and think he must have had some sort of mental illness to want to be a woman then why on earth was he allowed to teach children?

[Margaret Pilkington]

Neil, your analogy is absurd. It really is akin to saying homosexuality is a mental illness(and you aren't doing that are you?)
There are some unfortunate people who are outwardly one gender, but their brain is wired as the opposite gender....now if you want to argue semantics about whether this is a mental illness then I'm not the person to do it with......!

Why would Lucy Meadows have been a risk to children? What kind of risks might she have posed?
Do you think there are no teachers out there, teaching your children who have other mental illnesses......Bi Polar disorder for example.(which is controlled by drugs)

I'm not getting at you Neil,(I wouldn't do that because I respect your opinion) because I agree with much of what you have written...but I also feel that are elements of the situation(which may prove pivotal) that we cannot know.

[susie123]

Originally Posted by Neil

I said I believe he was let down by the system and I still believe that.
If I said I thought I was a rabbit trapped in a mans body and wanted to dress in a fur suit and live in a burrow my Doctor would send me to see a head Doctor.

Why is a man that thinks he is a woman any different?
If you are like me and think he must have had some sort of mental illness to want to be a woman then why on earth was he allowed to teach children?

I don't understand why you think wanting to change gender has anything to do with being allowed to teach children.

I also find your use of the pronoun "he" to refer to this person after they had obviously become a "she" mildly insulting to her memory.

As Margaret says, there are people whose brains are wired as the opposite gender, also some who have conditions not apparent at birth that cause them to be brought up as the wrong sex.

My friend's daughter decided as a teenager to seek gender reassignment and went through the whole process while doing A levels and starting at university. I can't say, as I didn't ask, what his reasons for this were, but he now appears to be a healthy, well-balanced young man, currently studying in Japan. I would say it takes a lot of courage to do that.

[DtheP47]

Originally Posted by Neil

If I said I thought I was a rabbit trapped in a mans body and wanted to dress in a fur suit and live in a burrow my Doctor would send me to see a head Doctor.

Hopefully you would get a hoppy ending to your condition Neil (pun intended)

Unfortunately poor Lucy didn't get that

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

There are some unfortunate people who are outwardly one gender, but their brain is wired as the opposite gender....now if you want to argue semantics about whether this is a mental illness then I'm not the person to do it with......!

By your own statement you think there is something wrong with their brain.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by susie123

I also find your use of the pronoun "he" to refer to this person after they had obviously become a "she" mildly insulting to her memory.

I don't wish to insult anyone's memory but I do not agree that surgery can change gender. Gender is down to genetics x and y and all that genetic stuff.

[mobertol]

As far as I know there has been no official inquest pronouncement about Lucy Meadow's death - therefore it really is jumping the gun to speak of suicide. No suspicious circumstances means not a murder, therefore I think two verdcts are probable either death by natural causes or suicide - but it is for the coronorer to pronounce the verdict when He/she has all the facts.
This was a very tragic death whatever the outcome of the inquest as a young person has lost their life, a child has lost a parent and many families and friends will be grieving. My condolences to them.
I totally agree with Marg P's comments on her fragility due to hormanal imbalance - mood swings are something most women have to cope with at some point in their lives, PMT is not a mental illness but it is hard to cope with as are the hormonal changes a woman goes through in her later years - leading to the menopause. I am not an expert but imagine the effects of hormal treatment for gender reassignment may be akin to this. Neil, a female brain IS different to a male one but not for this reason is it to be considered inferior or "sick" in some way -just different, for it's chemical make-up and layout!
Lucy, I believe had a lot of support from her colleagues, from what I read in the papers and was a highly valued teacher, she also had the support of both her family and in-laws. Her life choice would have had no effect on her capacity to teach well, which is, after all what is important -particularly in junior school where the foundation stones are laid for academic and general life.
Being hounded by the press would have made Lucy's life particularly stressful during an already difficult period. I think possibly the level of sustained interest was perhaps more than any of those immediately involved could ever have imagined and whether any of the members of the press commited any illegal actions will have to be considered IF and WHEN a suicide verdict is given. Gender assignment is not a new science and the need for it is not covered under any kind of mental health treatment, it is purely a medical condition and I believe treatable on the NHS with all the necessary support.

[susie123]

Originally Posted by Neil

I don't wish to insult anyone's memory but I do not agree that surgery can change gender. Gender is down to genetics x and y and all that genetic stuff.

She might have had the female genes from birth but they may not have been apparent. It does happen.

[susie123]

Originally Posted by Neil

By your own statement you think there is something wrong with their brain.

Having something wrong with your brain does not mean you have a mental illness.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Neil

By your own statement you think there is something wrong with their brain.

Neil, just read that again, I didn't say something 'wrong'.
You made that assumption.

I just said that these people who are transgender have their brains wired differently.....differently doesn't mean wrong...it means different.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by mobertol

As far as I know there has been no official inquest pronouncement about Lucy Meadow's death - therefore it really is jumping the gun to speak of suicide.

You're right, you will have to wait until the newspapers report about it after the inquest.

Originally Posted by mobertol

Neil, a female brain IS different to a male one but not for this reason is it to be considered inferior or "sick" in some way -just different, for it's chemical make-up and layout!

Now you are putting words in my mouth. I never said either sex was inferior to the other. Please don't forget though that we are talking about a man who wanted to be a woman and not a woman.