Democracy or Dictatorship? - Page 3

SPUGGIE J · 17-03-2006, 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil

Maybe once a week is all they can manage

After debating all week wether they can or not.

g jones · 17-03-2006, 18:48

No-one's ducking the issue. I have been mowed out at work this week [I need to work believe it or not!]. Until I read this thread I didn't even know about this bill, as I suspect other board members didn't either.

I think we are becoming an intolerant society. Normally people who have a grievance put it in the post and offer a written and informed position. I think that's right and fair.

Sometimes it feels like the quantity of paper given to read as a Councillor probably requires a hectare of Brazilaian rainforest a week. So come on fair play, give me a chance as I have a family to look after as well as work.

SPUGGIE J · 17-03-2006, 18:53

Its not intollerence its the joys of modern technology that makes it easier to be informed on whats happening.

Wynonie Harris · 17-03-2006, 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones

No-one's ducking the issue. I have been mowed out at work this week [I need to work believe it or not!]. Until I read this thread I didn't even know about this bill, as I suspect other board members didn't either.

Most board members would know about it as Cyfr started a thread on it about three weeks ago. However, now that you are aware of it, perhaps you could give us your opinion?

g jones · 18-03-2006, 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Most board members would know about it as Cyfr started a thread on it about three weeks ago. However, now that you are aware of it, perhaps you could give us your opinion?

Right, i'll put it on the to do list. Any chance of you coming around to my house and helping clear the backlog of other issues seeing as you have time and are keen???

Neil · 18-03-2006, 12:39

If you can't cope with the commitment to your people you could always stand down and let someone take over who can manage.

Wynonie Harris · 18-03-2006, 20:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones

Right, i'll put it on the to do list. Any chance of you coming around to my house and helping clear the backlog of other issues seeing as you have time and are keen???

For crying out loud! I'm only asking for your opinion on a topical issue of the day. Is it so flippin' difficult?

SPUGGIE J · 18-03-2006, 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

For crying out loud! I'm only asking for your opinion on a topical issue of the day. Is it so flippin' difficult?

Yep it is. You can never get a staight answer from a politition. They need to cosult their collegues PA guru's the head office and a lawyer,

Gayle · 19-03-2006, 11:55

As I have stated before I am not going in to politics to debate national issues, I am doing it because I want to make an impact locally and I want to help this area and this area alone. I do not really feel qualified to debate on national issues.

However, the one thing that no one ever calls me is 'a wimp' so here goes.

I have read the bill and suggest that everyone does the same

http://www.publications.parliament.u...n/06111x--.htm

When you sift through the bulk of it there is very little that has changed from the Regulatory Reform Act 2001, which is already in place. The bill is 'in theory' giving the power to use common sense to the individual MPs without having to go through all the red tape to get a comma or a full stop changed in an existing law. If you read the restrictions there is very little that they can actually do on their own and there are provisions in place to ensure the protection of the people and of current freedoms.

If it is used properly it could ensure that common sense takes over and MPs use their initiative wisely. However, and I know this is the bit where you'll all shout at me, we have to be concerned that it is used for power and personal gain. The alternatives are that every single teeny tiny fraction of every law is continually debated which clogs up the government and MPs from actually doing any good or that we allow MPs to use a certain amount of initiative.

I can see the benefits of it as it will reduce the number of tiny issues that are dealt with in parliament and give government departments the right to do their job. Surely that's what we elected the MPs for in the first place?

I can understand your concerns as I have them to - would we lose all our rights and freedoms and I personally would like to see more amendments made to the bill before it goes through that protect us. However, on the whole I think it could be a good thing.

So there you have it - I'm more or less in favour of it but it needs a couple of tweaks for me to be completely happy with it. And that's why I stick to commenting on pot holes on Union Road or dog poop near the park!

SPUGGIE J · 19-03-2006, 12:43

So this is all fat and blubber with little real meat. Sifting through politic claptrap and cow pats aint my strong point so will have to take the word of those who managed to trim the junk.

Wynonie Harris · 19-03-2006, 14:12

The bill gives ministers the power to amend existing legislation without recourse to full parliamentary scrutiny. To me that's an assault on democracy.

However, the key phrase in Gayle's post is, "if it is used properly it could ensure that common sense takes over and MPs use their initiative wisely." Can we be sure that it will be used properly and words like "common sense" and "wisely" are words that do not apply to the vast majority of current politicians, as far as I'm concerned!

accymel · 19-03-2006, 14:24

Good point Wynonie

also to point out that common sence is generally individual exp based, cos someone elses common sence may not be they same as others in opinion as the reason we have rules & regs spelled out quite literally as legally the use of common sence is questionable

SPUGGIE J · 19-03-2006, 14:31

Commen Sences Is Not A Requirement Of A Politition Just Blind Obedience To Thewhips And Leaders.

Gayle · 19-03-2006, 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

The bill gives ministers the power to amend existing legislation without recourse to full parliamentary scrutiny. To me that's an assault on democracy.

However, the key phrase in Gayle's post is, "if it is used properly it could ensure that common sense takes over and MPs use their initiative wisely." Can we be sure that it will be used properly and words like "common sense" and "wisely" are words that do not apply to the vast majority of current politicians, as far as I'm concerned!

Well you asked my opinion and that's what I think - if it's used wisely it could save thousands of pounds of parliamentary costs - I did expect that response because of course 'if' is a very big word in this sort of instance.

Wynonie Harris · 19-03-2006, 17:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle

it could save thousands of pounds of parliamentary costs

...and that's the be all and end all with New Labour, isn't it? A government that knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing. Of course it will save money in parliamentary costs - after all, ministers will be able to whisk amends to legislation right through without all those tiresome debates, late-night sittings and awkward questions in the House. But will British democracy - already something of a poor, sickly creature - be all the more impoverished for it?