Democracy or Dictatorship?

[shakermaker]

Originally Posted by Gayle

...it could save thousands of pounds of parliamentary costs

well labour have to pay back that £14 million from the general election campaign somehow

[jambutty]

If someone lends me some money the implication is that I have to repay the loan and if I cannot then I am bankrupt.

If the Labour Party has a debt of some $14m I cannot see how they can pay it back. So doesn’t that make them technically bankrupt? The same goes for the Tories.

A business or organisation that is bankrupt cannot continue operating. So why are the two political parties able to stay in business as it were?

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

...and that's the be all and end all with New Labour, isn't it? A government that knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing. Of course it will save money in parliamentary costs - after all, ministers will be able to whisk amends to legislation right through without all those tiresome debates, late-night sittings and awkward questions in the House. But will British democracy - already something of a poor, sickly creature - be all the more impoverished for it?

You see, and I'm not being funny here, this is why I didn't want to get drawn on national politics. I am doing what I'm doing because of local politics and here in Hyndburn we have a situation where the Conservatives have put us in debt and where it is Labour that has positive solutions to get us out of it.

[Wynonie Harris]

I haven't lived in Accy since 1987, so I know very little about the local political scene and would not presume to comment on it. I was asking you in your capacity as an ordinary member of the Labour party what you thought of the Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill. You said you thought it was a good thing if used sensibly, one of the plus points being that it would save money. I don't agree with you because I think it's far too open to abuse by unscrupulous politicians and I don't think that's worth saving money for. It's as simple as that.

What's the big deal about commenting on national political issues anyway? Do your opinions end at the borough boundary,,,or do you think that by defending unpopular national policies you'll lose potential votes?

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

What's the big deal about commenting on national political issues anyway? Do your opinions end at the borough boundary,,,or do you think that by defending unpopular national policies you'll lose potential votes?

I just don't think it's particularly relevant and could cloud the issue. I'm standing for local council which means that I'm putting myself up to be accountable for local issues. By bringing national issues into the equation you're bringing unecessary and irrelevant issues into it.

My opinion on national issues is as important as yours or the next persons but they have absolutely no impact on any initiatives or any good that I could do locally. So it's not a case of defending or arguing against any national policies I just don't think they should come into it in a local election.

[Wynonie Harris]

So because you're standing in a local election. you must never ever comment on national political issues? Do you think that the local electorate are so stupid that they can't differentiate between local and national issues? It seems to me that you're grossly underestimating the people you're hoping to represent!

[Gayle]

No, I don't think that at all but right at the moment I need to focus on local issues and I don't think that my stance on national issues makes the blindest bit of difference to the local election.

For instance - right here right now the local Labour party is pushing for Community Wardens, that's what's important and that's what really matters to people in this area. If you bring the national policy of the Regulatory Reform Bill into the equation it is completely irrelevant at this point in time because even if I get elected I won't have any influence over it.

[Wynonie Harris]

I'm not asking you your views on national issues as a prospective councillor, I'm asking you as a member of Accyweb and an ordinary rank-and-file member of the Labour party. One of the reasons I was asking was that I've read reports that many other grassroots party members seem unhappy with the bill, although you obviously don't share their misgivings.

As for bringing the Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill "into the equation" on the subject of Community Wardens, who's doing that? They are completely separate issues a million miles apart and people have the sense to realise that!

Have the New Labour spin doctors issued some sort of diktat that all prospective councillors must not express any opinions, apart from those concerned with local council matters? It certainly seems that way!

[Gayle]

No not at all but I just don't know enough about some national issues to comment. I made a point of reading the bill today because someone had called me a wimp for not replying, so I replied.

I do have their misgivings and I thought I'd said that. I agreed with the bill in principle but I have misgivings about the potential misuse of it.

I know the Community Wardens and the Reform bill are unconnected, the point I was making was that I know enough about one subject to comment on it (the local one) but I don't know enough about the bill (the national one).

[Wynonie Harris]

You said you were more or less in favour of it, but that it needed a couple of tweaks. That hardly seems the same as having misgivings over it.

Thanks for at least giving us the benefit of your view on the bill, anyway.

[pendy]

In fact the Commons procedure committee have now stated that the bill is too widely drawn and open to abuse and that there are not "sufficient restrictions on the misuse of those powers".

The simple meaning? It could be "Goodbye Magna Carta, Habeas Corpus, the Parliament Act - and, if misused, Goodnight and Goodbye Democracy".

[g jones]

Originally Posted by Neil

If you can't cope with the commitment to your people you could always stand down and let someone take over who can manage.

Neil, grow up mate. I represent people at local level and thats where my efforts go. If your lot, that bunch of incompetents (the Tories) weren't making such a balls up of Hyndburn then there would be less work. So don't come on here trying to make a personal attack look like a discussion.

This isn't the anti-Labour party site but I must admit, you and one or two others are making a good effort at it making it so.

And on a personal note I am having difficulties with my gran, she's 93. You choose, go up and make her tea or debate every national issue you want to whinge about. You sem to have no respect for others at all.

[g jones]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

For crying out loud! I'm only asking for your opinion on a topical issue of the day. Is it so flippin' difficult?

I have said once. I have no idea and have little intenton right now to find out. Obviously your having great difficulty realising what a mess Hyndburn is in.

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by g jones

Obviously your having great difficulty realising what a mess Hyndburn is in.

And you're having great difficulty in understanding why this site is taking on the appearance of an anti-Labour party site. It's because when we criticise the present Labour government, hardly anyone ever comes on here to defend or explain their actions.

If you don't have time because of other commitments, then fair enough. But don't complain about anti-Labour bias, if no one is going to fight the Government's corner!

[Neil]

Originally Posted by g jones

This isn't the anti-Labour party site but I must admit, you and one or two others are making a good effort at it making it so.

You are so easy to wind up. Chill out man. It makes no odds to me which party you are in at all. A piece of advise to you, if you want to carry on in politics learn to ignore comments made by people just trying to get a response from you like I did above.