Did Graham Jones do the right thing?

[Margaret Pilkington]

For Gods sake, someone...anyone, please get us out of the EU.

[mobertol]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

If someone kicks you in the proverbial nuts(OK...I know I don't have any, but I reckon I have more than any of the current crowd of politicians we have in power at present...or in the wings even) you do not, repeat not, give them a chance to aim a low blow in that direction again.

I always try to be diplomatic in pubblic Margaret -.privately i am far more disparaging. My good opinion once lost...

[garinda]

Originally Posted by mobertol

Long post that Tealeaf to praise a spin-doctor...not a great fan of New Labour myself, or Labour supporters who become Peers.

Time to look back to old values and old-fashioned ideals as far as I'm concerned -but then i see life through rose-tinted specs...and admit to not seeing very well at times!

What Tealeaf said is true.

Labour, under Foot and then Kinock, were unelectable, and would have remained that way forever more.

Rightly, or wrongly, they moved to the centre. Listened to what the ordinary man and woman were concerned about, and wasn't being tackled by Major's sleazy Tories, and changed.

They listened, addessed what people were actually saying they wanted, and offered to represent their views if elected.

It worked.

The state of the Labour party today, it won't work again.

Not until there's a change of leadership. and a major policy shift, which more ably represents what people now demand from our politicans.

Talk of more openess, and transparency in government means sweet Fanny Adams, if it's not backed up, by at least attempting to be democtatic, and representative of the people.

Anyone with any sense, backed up by all the opinion polls, know the British people are desperate to have a referendum, regarding our future relationship with the E.U.

All three mainstream parties refuse to see, and accept this fact...as of yet.

They'll have to, eventually.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Yes, I can understand that.......I try to be fair and moderate in my views and mostly I think I succeed, but there are some things that you cannot pussyfoot around on.
You just have to tell it like it is. Bu88er diplomacy....give us democracy!

Sarkozy was right....we have an Island mentality, we do not fit in with Europe because we are not of Europe.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

For Gods sake, someone...anyone, please get us out of the EU.

Not sure of the exact wording, but Graham Jones recently called you 'reasonable', or inferred that.

Well listen to the reasonable voice of one of your constituents Graham.

She's not alone.

She's one of a very sizable crowd, all shouting, reasonably, for the same thing.

A democratic right to vote in a referendum, and at least have some say in her future destiny.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by garinda

What Tealeaf said is true.

Labour, under Foot and then Kinock, were unelectable, and would have remained that way forever more.

Rightly, or wrongly, they moved to the centre. Listened to what the ordinary man and woman were concerned about, and wasn't being tackled by Major's sleazy Tories, and changed.

They listened, addessed what people were actually saying they wanted, and offered to represent their views if elected.

It worked.

The state of the Labour party today, it won't work again.

Not until there's a change of leadership. and a major policy shift, which more ably represents what people now demand from our politicans.

Talk of more openess, and transparency in government means sweet Fanny Adams, if it's not backed up, by at least attempting to be democtatic, and representative of the people.

Anyone with any sense, backed up by all the opinion polls, know the British people are desperate to have a referendum, regarding our future relationship with the E.U.

All three mainstream parties refuse to see, and accept this fact...as of yet.

They'll have to, eventually.

They gave the impression of listening, but did they listen really?

They might have said they were listening before they were put in power. They sure as hell weren't listening when they took the country to war.
They weren't listening when they allowed uncontrolled immigration - anyone who voiced concerns was put down as being racist.
We were told that Diversity was good for the country, that multiculturalism would enrich our lives.

There are many instances where the Labour party sold the electorate down the river. Pensions, policing, education, they used smoke and mirrors......there was a lot of spouting of buzzwords, they told the people what they thought they wanted to hear....they were thin on action.

Champagne socialism, isn't socialism...or looking after the poor, the disadvantaged, the old or the vulnerable.

[mobertol]

Originally Posted by garinda

What Tealeaf said is true.

Labour, under Foot and then Kinock, were unelectable, and would have remained that way forever more.

Rightly, or wrongly, they moved to the centre. Listened to what the ordinary man and woman were concerned about, and wasn't being tackled by Major's sleazy Tories, and changed.

They listened, addessed what people were actually saying they wanted, and offered to represent their views if elected.

It worked.

The state of the Labour party today, it won't work again.

Not until there's a change of leadership. and a major policy shift, which more ably represents what people now demand from our politicans.

Talk of more openess, and transparency in government means sweet Fanny Adams, if it's not backed up, by at least attempting to be democtatic, and representative of the people.

Anyone with any sense, backed up by all the opinion polls, know the British people are desperate to have a referendum, regarding our future relationship with the E.U.

All three mainstream parties refuse to see, and accept this fact...as of yet.

They'll have to, eventually.

OK -so Foot and Kinnock had the wrong face...

The insincere face which New Labour represented was far worse and pulled the wool over the proverbial Nation's eyes telling them what they wanted to hear -Loss of manufacturing overseas, ved. current debt crisis and Blair's adoration of Europe..."Je suis European, J' etait European, Je sarei European!"

Hard to pull out of something when you are so entwined -even if it happens to be the Titanic on it's last voyage...

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

They gave the impression of listening, but did they listen really?

They might have said they were listening before they were put in power. They sure as hell weren't listening when they took the country to war.
They weren't listening when they allowed uncontrolled immigration - anyone who voiced concerns was put down as being racist.
We were told that Diversity was good for the country, that multiculturalism would enrich our lives.

There are many instances where the Labour party sold the electorate down the river. Pensions, policing, education, they used smoke and mirrors......there was a lot of spouting of buzzwords, they told the people what they thought they wanted to hear....they were thin on action.

Champagne socialism, isn't socialism...or looking after the poor, the disadvantaged, the old or the vulnerable.

Oh I agree.

They listened.

Made promises.

Gained trust.

Secured victory.

Then forgot all about it, once 'they'd' gained POWER.

They were good con men.

Must have been.

Having done it three times.

[Margaret Pilkington]

How can it be hard to get out when Angela Merkel threatened to throw out the Greeks if they had a referendum against the wishes of the EU diktat?
If France and Germany can throw out another member, then it stands to reason that a member could do something to get thrown out...or could leave by agreement.
This Franco German alliance is looking a bit worrying. It seems that they call the shots and if they don't like what you are doing then it might just be curtains for your leadership......how is that democratic? No don't answer, it was a rhetorical question, to which I know the answer.
Brussels abhors anything that looks like a democracy.

[mobertol]

Originally Posted by garinda

Oh I agree.

They listened.

Made promises.

Gained trust.

Secured victory.

Then forgot all about it, once 'they'd' gained POWER.

They were good con men.

Must have been.

Having done it three times.

Oh to be succinct and one of few words with such meaning!

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by mobertol

Oh to be succinct and one of few words with such meaning!

Ya once is forgivable twice is a tad careless, three times is downright reckless

[Margaret Pilkington]

No John...reckless doesn't cover it, but stupid does!

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

No John...reckless doesn't cover it, but stupid does!

Ya suppose your right Margaret, Stupid is as stupid does

[g jones]

Here we go again. EU Workers rights under attack again by vested interests, the wealthy. The working man (and more succintly woman ) are to 'pay' for banking crises whilst executive pay rockets by 49% in the UK. Working people have to stand together to defend their economic interests. The right has a new narrative that is was not aggressive capitalism, not the banks fault, but the EuroZone and the Euro. The Euro was fine b4 This lot began their casino capitalism.

​‘Recovery ‘blown off course’, warns CBI’ (Tele p2) – Britain’s economic recovery is at risk of being ‘blown off course’ by the eurozone crisis & gloomy growth forecasts, the CBI has warned. It called on the govt to overhaul EU employment rights.

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[g jones]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

How can it be hard to get out when Angela Merkel threatened to throw out the Greeks if they had a referendum against the wishes of the EU diktat?
If France and Germany can throw out another member, then it stands to reason that a member could do something to get thrown out...or could leave by agreement.
This Franco German alliance is looking a bit worrying. It seems that they call the shots and if they don't like what you are doing then it might just be curtains for your leadership......how is that democratic? No don't answer, it was a rhetorical question, to which I know the answer.
Brussels abhors anything that looks like a democracy.

Margaret, Merkel is playing the spin game, trapped between 'little Germans' yet and a devalued Euro-Deutchmark. If Merkel could contain just a Greek exit she would be fine. It's contagion that the German economists fear. Every German is paying 1000 Euros to the Greeks. A collapsed Euro though would cost every German 6000 Euros one Euro institution said.

You raise a good second point. One scenario is a collapsed Euro and a Franco plus poor stable EU countries will emerge in Franco German interests. As the 2nd largest EU nation and a trading nation he Germans and the French would make British laws as drivers of Common Market with Britain outiside the tent.

Mind you the Germans and the French look after their workers, citizens better than we do. Theirs the irony.

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