Did Graham Jones do the right thing?

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

How many times have I said that people can ask me questions at any time? I'm not sure how or where I've ducked anything but I'm heartily sick of people such as yourself who seem to regard knocking people's efforts as some sort of constructive sport.

Ask and you shall find.

Be sarky and you shall get what you deserve.

Er..this is a privately owned local forum.

Unconnected in any way to H.B.C.

People are free to discuss on here what they like, within the rules.

Anyone with any sense would go through the correct channels, if they required an answer from a local politican.

This place is for discussion.

Not necessarily answers to anything that might be being publicly debated.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

I'm heartily sick of people such as yourself who seem to regard knocking people's efforts as some sort of constructive sport.

Ask and you shall find.

Be sarky and you shall get what you deserve.

Not a sport, just the disappointment of having one's belief in a person proved to be unworthwhile.

Not very often I personally would ask you a question but there have been many on here that have, do they seem pleased with the results? Surely they can't all be like me?

Your quite adept at the old sarcasm yourself, unfortunately it isn't a vote winner. I do wonder what we all deserve, jumping from a Tory frying pan into a Labour fire, wasn't my idea of how things would improve.

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by Less

Not a sport, just the disappointment of having one's belief in a person proved to be unworthwhile.

Not very often I personally would ask you a question but there have been many on here that have, do they seem pleased with the results? Surely they can't all be like me?

Your quite adept at the old sarcasm yourself, unfortunately it isn't a vote winner. I do wonder what we all deserve, jumping from a Tory frying pan into a Labour fire, wasn't my idea of how things would improve.

Then I'm genuinely sorry to have been a disappointment to you.

I've never been one to shy away from someone who takes a pop at me and I'll be the first to admit that I can be as sarcastic as the best of them but unfortunately it seems that stepping up to the political bar is in some way expected to remove all semblance of autonomous thought and turn people into 'all things to all men' so as not to offend anyone.

I'm afraid I don't fit that bill very well and will happy argue the toss with someone without worrying if it will cost me a vote or two. If I die by the sword because I speak about things how they really are then so be it, at least I will have served my time without watering my beliefs down to remain popular.

As far as the council itself is concerned, are you honestly serious about this administration being in any way comparable to the last one? We've not been perfect but I venture so far as to say that we've been a damn sight more transparent about things than our predecessors.

[garinda]

Less reposted the subject supposedly under discussion here.

Did Graham Jones do the right thing?

To which the reply was an overwhelming NO.

Can we keep other disappoinments regarding politicans, to the many other relevant threads please?

Thank you.

[Barrie Yates]

Originally Posted by garinda

Less reposted the subject supposedly under discussion here.

Did Graham Jones do the right thing?

To which the reply was an overwhelming NO.

Can we keep other disappoinments regarding politicans, to the many other relevant threads please?

Thank you.

Well said G - when have you known any politician actually answer the question posed to them?

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

How many times have I said that people can ask me questions at any time?

Right, Ken, you may have answered this already, but if you did, I must have missed it. Do you think Graham Jones did the right thing in voting against holding a referendum on EU membership? If you think he did do the right thing, why?

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Barrie Yates

Well said G - when have you known any politician actually answer the question posed to them?

When they are out of office and seeking election Of course, whether they answer truthfully or not is another question.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

How many times have I said that people can ask me questions at any time? I'm not sure how or where I've ducked anything but I'm heartily sick of people such as yourself who seem to regard knocking people's efforts as some sort of constructive sport.

Ask and you shall find.

Be sarky and you shall get what you deserve.

You sodding two faced hypocrite, I don't know how you have the cheek.:rol leyes:

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Eric

When they are out of office and seeking election Of course, whether they answer truthfully or not is another question.

Think you've got that in one Eric

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Right, Ken, you may have answered this already, but if you did, I must have missed it. Do you think Graham Jones did the right thing in voting against holding a referendum on EU membership? If you think he did do the right thing, why?

I would never undermine Graham Jones and so the straight answer is yes.

I have my own opinions on the EU which I will expand on further but I have known Graham for just over three years and in that time he has demonstrated a grasp of politics which far exceeds my own. I have discussed the matter with him in the past and he has made several points which weakened my resolve on pulling out of Europe. We don't agree entirely on this issue but he is a man with a clear vision of the bigger picture and I trust him implicitly to make the best judgements in Parliament on my behalf as a resident of Hyndburn.

I must admit to remaining a Eurosceptic despite hearing several quite convincing arguments in favour. As it stands, we are being told that if Greece leaves the Euro it will damage Great Britain so I'm not entirely sure how much self-harm we would do if we pull out ourselves. If things stay on their current course it may transpire that the Eurozone starts to break up anyway but it doesn't sound like that would be great news in broader terms.

My own personal feeling is that this issue will never go away until we hold a referendum and get it over with. However, the problem with any referendum is a lack of public information and this is where they start being a little bit dangerous. The wording needs to be right and I will cite the Scottish referendum as an example of one where the SNP's preferred question may be seen by some to be leading the answer. The full facts and ramifications need to be presented to the public in such as way that they know exactly what they are voting for or against.

At the moment I suspect a sizeable number of people would vote to withdraw from Europe tomorrow based on what they either know or think they know from the media but that is a long way from having the full facts, it is merely an edited version of the truth.

I don't know enough about Europe to discuss it properly so until that changes I will leave decisions to those who do.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

I would never undermine Graham Jones and so the straight answer is yes.


I don't know enough about Europe to discuss it properly so until that changes I will leave decisions to those who do.

Surely rather than a straight answer not wishing to undermine him is out of loyalty to the man/party?

Can I reluctantly ask, if you don't know enough about Europe to decide, how could you and other Councillors, (allowing for their equal ignorance), put forward a majority vote backing Kashmir?

Like myself you probably know even less about their 'politics', than you do about Europe?

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by Less

Can I reluctantly ask, if you don't know enough about Europe to decide, how could you and other Councillors, (allowing for their equal ignorance), put forward a majority vote backing Kashmir?

Surely like myself you know even less about their 'politics', than you do about Europe?

It was a question I asked before we went into the Council Chamber so that I had some idea of what the motion was about and why it needed amending. Cllr Munsif Dad of Springhill ward is from a Kashmiri background and was able to give a balanced overview of the situation there.

I've said before that I would have preferred not to vote on it but we couldn't throw it out and I dislike abstaining.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

It was a question I asked before we went into the Council Chamber so that I had some idea of what the motion was about and why it needed amending. Cllr Munsif Dad of Springhill ward is from a Kashmiri background and was able to give a balanced overview of the situation there.

I've said before that I would have preferred not to vote on it but we couldn't throw it out and I dislike abstaining.

Would it be possible for you to repeat (in simple terms) what it was that was so convincing about Cllr Munsif Dad of Springhill ward's balanced overview of the situation there, that overwhelmed the Councillors to back Kashmir? After all, it did make our little area quite popular/unpopular with certain members of the press Worldwide.


Could I also ask, again, reluctantly, should our Council get involved with International Politics, when we can't keep our heads above water with local issues?

[Ken Moss]

Originally Posted by Less

Would it be possible for you to repeat (in simple terms) what it was that was so convincing about Cllr Munsif Dad of Springhill ward's balanced overview of the situation there, that overwhelmed the Councillors to back Kashmir? After all, it did make our little area quite popular/unpopular with certain members of the press Worldwide.


Could I also ask, again, reluctantly, should our Council get involved with International Politics, when we can't keep our heads above water with local issues?

View point 345 of the minutes to see what the ACTUAL wording of the vote was:

http://www.hyndburnbc.gov.uk/downloa..._101111_1_.pdf

I would be quite happy never to vote on international issues at Full Council ever again, largely irrelevant.

[Less]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

View point 345 of the minutes to see what the ACTUAL wording of the vote was:

http://www.hyndburnbc.gov.uk/downloa..._101111_1_.pdf

I would be quite happy never to vote on international issues at Full Council ever again, largely irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Less

Would it be possible for you to repeat (in simple terms) what it was that was so convincing about Cllr Munsif Dad of Springhill ward's balanced overview of the situation there, that overwhelmed the Councillors to back Kashmir? After all, it did make our little area quite popular/unpopular with certain members of the press Worldwide.

Please, don't point me to link's, I asked you for simple terms that convinced YOU and other Councillors, not the official (amendment?). I myself am a simple soul, if it convinced you, why won't it convince me?

I know you and I haven't been eye to eye for a while, that can be rectified by honesty, not by hiding behind the Party/Council interpretation of what happened.