Did Graham Jones do the right thing? - Page 4

jaysay · 26-10-2011, 10:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Ah, so unlike Blair, Brown, and Cameron, who all at one time said they'd give the British people a referendum to decide this issue, you don't believe in them?

Denying others the right to have their say on European Union membership, for the very first time, has nothing to do with protecting the current status quo, because you just happen to support it.

Fair enough.

Did you vote in the 1975 referendum, when the country was asked whether they wanted to remain in the then Common Market?

I voted yes but it was a different beast in those days

garinda · 26-10-2011, 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCB

The basic reason is that I do not think that referendums are a good thing in our parliamentary democracy .

We have general elections to elect an MP to represent us in Parliament according to his/her own judgement as the issues arise .

There is a wrong belief by many that we were given a vote in a referendum when we joined the EEC .
The Conservative Government took us into the EEC through a majority of MPs voting for it in Parliament .
The referendum came later when we were already in . It was not adopted for some noble principle about letting the British people have a democratic say . It was a ploy used by Harold Wilson to settle the problems the EEC issue was causing the Labour Party .

Although I don't think it vaild, thank you for attempting a justification.

As far as we're aware, explaining clearly why giving people a referendum is wrong, is more than Graham Jones has done.

cashman · 26-10-2011, 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCB

The basic reason is that I do not think that referendums are a good thing in our parliamentary democracy .

We have general elections to elect an MP to represent us in Parliament according to his/her own judgement as the issues arise .

whilst accepting yer view, i disagree strongly wi it JCB, i was always under impression that people voted fer MPs to represent the constituency, seems that was a daft notion in this instance.

accyman · 26-10-2011, 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

whilst accepting yer view, i disagree strongly wi it JCB, i was always under impression that people voted fer MPs to represent the constituency, seems that was a daft notion in this instance.

that is exactly what their job is and ours didnt do it on this occasion

if more MP's had done their job we would more than likely be having a referendum

JCB · 26-10-2011, 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Anyway, never mind about that, this is a witch hunt. We'll be forming a torch-lit mob and descending on your house tonight to carry you down to the river and throw you in to see if you float.

I'm not sure which smiley to use . Perhaps we should have a referendum on it .

JCB · 26-10-2011, 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Did you vote in the 1975 referendum, when the country was asked whether they wanted to remain in the then Common Market?

Yes , I have voted in the two nationwide referendums we have had in the UK .

In 1975 I voted to withdraw from the EEC .

This year I voted to reject the Alternative Vote .

garinda · 26-10-2011, 17:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Did you vote in the 1975 referendum, when the country was asked whether they wanted to remain in the then Common Market?

So you 'believed' in them then, and took your right to vote in one, making your view count?

Just not now, so everyone can have their right, for the very first time, re: the European Union, as it is now.

Ok.

garinda · 26-10-2011, 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCB

Yes , I have voted in the two nationwide referendums we have had in the UK .

In 1975 I voted to withdraw from the EEC .

This year I voted to reject the Alternative Vote .

So how is now different from 1975?

So we can understand your reasoning, and it just looks to others that because of what you think regarding continuing membership, it suits your cause not to have a referendum on this issue now.

Especially as the European Union is a far different entity to the Common Market, as it then was in 1975, when you took your right to vote in a referendum.

garinda · 26-10-2011, 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCB

The basic reason is that I do not think that referendums are a good thing in our parliamentary democracy .

We have general elections to elect an MP to represent us in Parliament according to his/her own judgement as the issues arise .

There is a wrong belief by many that we were given a vote in a referendum when we joined the EEC .
The Conservative Government took us into the EEC through a majority of MPs voting for it in Parliament .
The referendum came later when we were already in . It was not adopted for some noble principle about letting the British people have a democratic say . It was a ploy used by Harold Wilson to settle the problems the EEC issue was causing the Labour Party .

Since you apparently believe referendums aren't 'a good thing in our parliamentary democracy'.

What made you suspend your disbelief in them in 1975, and vote in one?

If there isn't a rational explanation, some could say your support that there shouldn't be the same right now, in which everyone can vote for the very first time on E.U. membership in a referendum, smacks of hypocrisy.

garinda · 26-10-2011, 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCB

Yes , I have voted in the two nationwide referendums we have had in the UK .

In 1975 I voted to withdraw from the EEC .

This year I voted to reject the Alternative Vote .

If there isn't a rational explanation, it'll look to everyone that your stance is the same as Graham Jones.

Voting not to give everyone a right to vote on this issue suits your needs.

Because you happen to support continued membership of the European Union, just like Graham Jones.

So sod the rights of others.

Well I'm afraid to an awful lot of people that sounds far removed from democracy.

garinda · 26-10-2011, 17:54

At least it's now clear why you are one of the tiny minority, who voted in this poll that Graham Jones had done the right thing.

JCB · 26-10-2011, 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Since you apparently believe referendums aren't 'a good thing in our parliamentary democracy'.

What made you suspend your disbelief in them in 1975, and vote in one?

If there isn't a rational explanation, some could say your support that there shouldn't be the same right now, in which everyone can vote for the very first time on E.U. membership in a referendum, smacks of hypocrisy.

I don't see any hypocrisy in having voted in a referendum in 1975 and in this year .

To think that referendums ought not to be part of the democratic system in this country , but to vote in one since I have been given the option is not contradictory .

If there were a referendum on the EU in 2013 I would hopefully use my vote , but , unless I have changed my mind by then , I would still be against referendum in principle .

I don't believe that party politics should have the place they have in local government . That doesn't prevent me from voting in local elections .

I have to live and act within a system as it is , though I might prefer it to be otherwise .

garinda · 26-10-2011, 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCB

I don't see any hypocrisy in having voted in a referendum in 1975 and in this year .

To think that referendums ought not to be part of the democratic system in this country , but to vote in one since I have been given the option is not contradictory .

If there were a referendum on the EU in 2013 I would hopefully use my vote , but , unless I have changed my mind by then , I would still be against referendum in principle .

I don't believe that party politics should have the place they have in local government . That doesn't prevent me from voting in local elections .

I have to live and act within a system as it is , though I might prefer it to be otherwise .

Fair enough.

Though to others I'm sure it will seem your view, that everyone shouldn't have the right to vote on this issue for the very first time, just so happens to protect what you believe to be right about our E.U. membership.

garinda · 26-10-2011, 18:32

Any other 'yes, he did the right thing' voters publicly prepared to say why it was right people be denied a vote in a referendum on E.U. membership?

You obviously believe it was right, because you too voted for it.

It would be very interesting to know your reasons why.

garinda · 26-10-2011, 18:37

Personally, no matter how unpopular it might be to others, if I believe something to be right, I have the strength of my convictions.

Which means I will always be prepared to argue my case, and give a reasoned explanation, as to what I believe to be true.