Did Graham Jones do the right thing?

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

Try to grasp this - occasionally, we all have to admit that there are people out there who know more about certain subjects than we do. I'll freely admit that Graham Jones knows far more about the EU situation than I do.



I'm no great fan of the EU but I'm savvy enough to realise that pulling out is not a swift or painless process.

I agree(in principle) with much of what you have said, but while we may not be as savvy as someone else(of course there is always someone who knows more than we do...doesn't mean we can't learn)...if we can recognise that we need more information, then the information is out there.

OK, it won't come and knock on your door...you have to make the effort to look for it....and when you have found it you need to carefully balance the pro's and the con's.

Coming out will not be an easy task(we should have been offered a referendum long before we were so tied into the organisation - which is purely political, not trade as we were told when we first got sucked in)....but then neither is it impossible. There is a lot of political scaremongering going on, to persuade people to follow the line of least resistance.

In the main, I feel very jaundiced at what most politicians tell me, and am prone to ask myself what they(the politician) has to gain from from what he/she is telling me....and that is a very sad state of affairs and I would suggest it is(in part) why there is so much apathy about voting....we no longer believe that our voices and opinions are heard, and more importantly taken note of/acted on.
Politics seems to be more about smoke and mirrors, and 'spin'(which is a euphemism for lies).

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

....... I'll freely admit that Graham Jones knows far more about the EU situation than I do........

I'm no great fan of the EU but I'm savvy enough to realise that pulling out is not a swift or painless process.

I am sure he will know a lot more about the subject in his position and is probably told things we are not but it would be nice to know why we are supposed to be better in the EU - I am not convinced we are so would like someone to convince me.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by jaysay

There is far more pain staying in for ordinary folk, but of course we've already been told that we don't matter anymore

What pain is it causing ordinary folk?

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Neil

What pain is it causing ordinary folk?

How much is it costing you in taxes to help bail out the cobbled up mess that is the Euro, I can't for the life in me know why we should pay a red cent to bail out the likes of Grease Italy Portugal, and Spain is looking iffy, after all this country had the common sense not to enter the system as there was always a chance of it ending in tears and it sure as hell has.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Neil

I am sure he will know a lot more about the subject in his position and is probably told things we are not but it would be nice to know why we are supposed to be better in the EU - I am not convinced we are so would like someone to convince me.

These are questions people could have sought answers to, if, and it's a big if, Graham Jones and his ilk had the balls to acknowledge that people are quite capable of making their own minds up, in a referendum, as to whether we want to continue as members of the European Union, or not.

Ih his words, a referendum would 'settle this issue democratically'.

Unfortunately he decided to vote against us having that democratic right.

Knowing, as he does, that the concept is far too complex for us ordinary folks to understand.

Er...no, it isn't.

[maxthecollie]

Originally Posted by garinda

These are questions people could have sought answers to, if, and it's a big if, Graham Jones and his ilk had the balls to acknowledge that people are quite capable of making their own minds up, in a referendum, as to whether we want to continue as members of the European Union, or not.

Ih his words, a referendum would 'settle this issue democratically'.

Unfortunately he decided to vote against us having that democratic right.

Knowing, as he does, that the concept is far too complex for us ordinary folks to understand.

Er...no, it isn't.

Does he know what democratically means?

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by maxthecollie

Does he know what democratically means?

Don't be silly Max he a politician, democracy is tailored to suite their own needs

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Ken Moss

I'm sure we'll hear this over and over and OVER in the vain hope that someone someday will laugh with you.

Hurrah.

On this rare occasion, you're partly right.

This issue will be discussed, over, and over, until the matter is resolved.

You're wrong, in thinking I come on here to amuse anyone other than myself.

I'm strictly amateur.

There are others, who raise much bigger laughs.

Albeit unintentionally.

It's the way you tell 'em.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by maxthecollie

Does he know what democratically means?

I'm sure he does.

It's in the dictionary.

Coming before hypocrisy.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by jaysay

How much is it costing you in taxes to help bail out the cobbled up mess that is the Euro, I can't for the life in me know why we should pay a red cent to bail out the likes of Grease Italy Portugal, and Spain is looking iffy, after all this country had the common sense not to enter the system as there was always a chance of it ending in tears and it sure as hell has.

I would like to know why as well.

We were told we should bail out Ireland because our banks had investments there but would it not have been cheaper to let Ireland fail and just bail out our banks instead?

[Margaret Pilkington]

I thought we had done that once already.

[Guinness]

Originally Posted by Neil

I would like to know why as well.

We were told we should bail out Ireland because our banks had investments there but would it not have been cheaper to let Ireland fail and just bail out our banks instead?

The UK is actually making a few quid out of that deal, in simplistic terms because Ireland has a poor credit rating, the UK, along with other countries, borrowed on their behalf at a lower interest rate, gave them the money and now charge Ireland a higher interest rate than the borrowers are paying to the banks.

It's one of the reasons why the Greeks are telling the Eurozone to get stuffed, and they have a point, Germany et al, get richer by charging exorbitant rates which the population of Ireland, (and soon to be Spain), have to pay back, because they were suckered into joining the Euro and now have the financiers of these countries, (who incidentally got Irelan

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I thought we had done that once already.

There's no greater gift, than helping out your fellow European brothers.

Give, give, give.

There's no need to ever stop this act of kindness.

The U.K.'s European Union contributions - The gift that keeps on giving.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Neil

I would like to know why as well.

We were told we should bail out Ireland because our banks had investments there but would it not have been cheaper to let Ireland fail and just bail out our banks instead?

Totally agree Neil, seems like GB have to bail out any lame duck, it might be an idea if we actually bailed ourselves out first before being so kind to others

[Guinness]

Slow internet screwed my previous post, should have read....

The UK is actually making a few quid out of that deal, in simplistic terms because Ireland has a poor credit rating, the UK, along with other countries, borrowed on their behalf at a lower interest rate, gave them the money and now charge Ireland a higher interest rate than the borrowers are paying to the banks.

It's one of the reasons why the Greeks are telling the Eurozone to get stuffed, and they have a point, Germany et al, get richer by charging exorbitant rates which the population of Ireland, (and soon to be Spain), have to pay back, because they were suckered into joining the Euro and now have the financiers of these countries, (who incidentally got Ireland into the mess by promising the Earth if they joined the Euro), basically running the economy and therefore governing Ireland

I hope the Greeks stick to their guns. Go Greece! I for one am rooting for you