Did Graham Jones do the right thing?

[garinda]

'Public opinion is shifting, too: only a third of the country regards Britain’s EU membership as a good idea. The old left-right divide over Europe, which governed British politics for two decades, has disintegrated.'

'This is no longer a debate about abstract issues of sovereignty. Rather, Euroscepticism is becoming an all-party force, united in disgust at Europe’s inefficiency, profligacy and anti-democratic elitism.'

Politics: Euroscepticism isn’t just for Tories any more | The Spectator

Someone's at least able to gauge the true feelings of the majority of ordinary man and woman in the street.

Even if our M.P. can't.

[g jones]

Originally Posted by jaysay

That says it all Eric, I for one am sick of unelected bureaucrats over ruling the elected government at Westminster and its time the British people were allowed to have a say on the European issue, after all its 36 years since we were last asked for our views and that was on a completely different animal than we now have, people under 54 have never been allowed to air their views on the EU, its time their voices were allowed to be heard

The EU is run by the European Council (not the Council of Europe) made up of national ministers who are directly accountable to national parliaments.

As we have seen with the EU crises, leaders and finance ministers made all the decisions. The EU parliament had nothing to do with the big decisions.

I didn't have a say on Irish home rule or the Treaty of Versailles. How far do you propose to go back in time? I am sorry John but that's a daft one.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by g jones

How far do you propose to go back in time?

Er...Monday.

When the vast majority of your constituents wanted you to vote in favour of a referendum.

Which, for the very first time, would have allowed people a democratic vote. Saying whether they were in favour of European Union membership, or not.

People want this right.

Which is presumably why it was dangled like a carrot on a stick before the electorate, by both Blair, Brown, and Cameron, prior to various General Elections.

But who all reneged on this promise, once they'd secured election victory.

You, yourself, said on here, a little over two weeks ago said that you, and I quote, 'have no objection to a simple in out vote' as it 'settles the issue democratically'...then voted against giving us this right!

Why?

By sabotaging people's right for a democratic vote on this issue, just because you happen to be pro-European Union, just makes you look like you are protecting what you happen to think is right, and are more interested in supporting your party's elite leadership, than supporting the people who elected you.

You can attempt to spin this however you like.

In the eyes of most of us you have acted very shoddily towards us all.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by g jones

The EU is run by the European Council (not the Council of Europe) made up of national ministers who are directly accountable to national parliaments.

As we have seen with the EU crises, leaders and finance ministers made all the decisions. The EU parliament had nothing to do with the big decisions.

I didn't have a say on Irish home rule or the Treaty of Versailles. How far do you propose to go back in time? I am sorry John but that's a daft one.

Not as daft as us sitting back while Sarkozy piles his unemployed onto trains and sends them through the channel tunnel to look for British Jobs and when unsuccessful being housed and kept by the British tax payer, all rubber stamped by the EC. They keep trying to tell us that this works two ways, yet I Haven't seen too many of our citizens hightailing it over to eastern Europe, after taking their jobs and when unsuccessful being kept on benefits by these governments, its always a one way ticket in that respect and all the roads lead to good old GB, marvelous, is it any wonder that the population of GB will have reached 70 million very shortly with the influx of people coming to the promised land being mainly responsible, you couldn't make it up

[garinda]

...and don't even try to attempt painting people who don't agree with you as right-wing, Little Englanders.

Many, like myself, are long term Labour voters, who are utterly sick and fed up of the elitist, ambitious, careerist politicans, who are so cocooned in their comfortable little worlds, they haven't got a bloody clue what ordinary people really think.

We all shamefully witnessed what our political leaders really think of us, when Gordon Brown branded Gillian Duffy as a racist bigot, for daring to raise the question of immigration with the then Prime Minister.

[garinda]

88% of people, right across the political spectrum, who voted in this poll, are united in the belief you let them down.

By not voting that they are allowed a democratic vote in a referendum, on a body that has fundamentally changed beyond all recognition, since the last time they were asked about it, in 1975.

[garinda]

The actual wording on the referendum paper, in 1975.

"Do you think the UK should stay in the European Community (Common Market)?"

No mention of us being governed by a European Union. Which didn't come into existence until 1992.

Just the Common Market, a trade alliance.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by garinda

...and don't even try to attempt painting people who don't agree with you as right-wing, Little Englanders.

Many, like myself, are long term Labour voters, who are utterly sick and fed up of the elitist, ambitious, careerist politicans, who are so cocooned in their comfortable little worlds, they haven't got a bloody clue what ordinary people really think.

We all shamefully witnessed what our political leaders really think of us, when Gordon Brown branded Gillian Duffy as a racist bigot, for daring to raise the question of immigration with the then Prime Minister.

Have to disagree rindy,they have in most cases got a clue, they just don't give a toss what ordinary folk think.

[BERNADETTE]

Ironic isn't it that not one of the labour people choosen by the electorate to be their representative in Hyndburn has made a comment on Graham Jones decision? Do they agree or disagree with the way he voted or are they being told not to air their views on a public forum?

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by cashman

Have to disagree rindy,they have in most cases got a clue, they just don't give a toss what ordinary folk think.

Ya once they reach the land of milk and honey its to the electors

[garinda]

If you don't think the views of Accy Webbers are representative enough for you Graham, as reflecting the views of your constituents, I believe the Observer are toying with a similar poll, so as to gauge public opinion on this matter.

The results of which, we, the ordinary people, know as a certainty, will further illustrate that people think they deserve a right to have their views be counted in a referendum.

(...and no, I didn't contact them.)

[garinda]

Originally Posted by BERNADETTE

Ironic isn't it that not one of the labour people choosen by the electorate to be their representative in Hyndburn has made a comment on Graham Jones decision? Do they agree or disagree with the way he voted or are they being told not to air their views on a public forum?

Perhaps they're doing away with whips, and instead pointing guns at heads, in order to appear as unified.

The whole thing is shameful, and shoddy.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by garinda

...and don't even try to attempt painting people who don't agree with you as right-wing, Little Englanders.

...and if all those who disagree with how you voted are right-wing Little Englanders, it seems odd to pass on information to one of them, in the run up to the last General Election.

Information that you were too afraid to publicly leak yourself, whilst campaigning to secure your election victory.

Eh...Graham?

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by garinda

...and if all those who disagree with how you voted are right-wing Little Englanders, it seems odd to pass on information to one of them, in the run up to the last General Election.

Information that you were too afraid to publicly leak yourself, whilst campaigning to secure your election victory.

Eh...Graham?

Reminds me of that old joke Rindi, excuse me Mr Jones, but where's your other face, my gran says your two faced

[g jones]

I'm a pragmatist and it hurts that sometimes jobs and growth mean principles have to be more measured. I believe the high pay for example should be dealt with a progressive tax system however there is a point where it is not in Britains interests and the rich hold us to random.

Bankers promising to flee to New York or Frankfurt (Euro 17 a real worry in this case) when the City contribute £1 in every £7 to the chancellor is a case in question. I know what we'd like to do in principle but how far dare we go?