Did Graham Jones do the right thing?

[garinda]

Originally Posted by g jones

I'm a pragmatist and it hurts that sometimes jobs and growth mean principles have to be more measured. I believe the high pay for example should be dealt with a progressive tax system however there is a point where it is not in Britains interests and the rich hold us to random.

Bankers promising to flee to New York or Frankfurt (Euro 17 a real worry in this case) when the City contribute £1 in every £7 to the chancellor is a case in question. I know what we'd like to do in principle but how far dare we go?

Is it pragmatism, or hypocrisy, to say one thing

Originally Posted by g jones

I personally have no objection to a simple in out vote. Settles the issue democratically. I have no axe to grind either way.

...and two weeks later, do another?

How can people possibly trust anything you say, after doing that?

[garinda]

It just looks to your constituents that what you say can't now be believed, and that you abused your privilege of office to protect the status quo of what you happen to believe about our European Union membership, and sod the rights of your constituents to have their opinions count.

You accused me of saying you'd become out of touch with ordinary people.

You are, on this issue.

People are demanding their democratic right to vote in a referendum, on our future relationship with the European Union.

If you can't understand this, that proves you are out of touch with the feelings of the vast majority of local people.

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by g jones

I'm a pragmatist and it hurts that sometimes jobs and growth mean principles have to be more measured. I believe the high pay for example should be dealt with a progressive tax system however there is a point where it is not in Britains interests and the rich hold us to random.

Bankers promising to flee to New York or Frankfurt (Euro 17 a real worry in this case) when the City contribute £1 in every £7 to the chancellor is a case in question. I know what we'd like to do in principle but how far dare we go?

A somewhat hamfisted attempt at deflecting the issue, Graham. Why don't you just answer Gary's question about why two weeks ago you had "no objection" to a referendum and now you've suddenly discovered sufficient objections to vote against it?

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by g jones

I'm a pragmatist and it hurts that sometimes jobs and growth mean principles have to be more measured. I believe the high pay for example should be dealt with a progressive tax system however there is a point where it is not in Britains interests and the rich hold us to random.

Bankers promising to flee to New York or Frankfurt (Euro 17 a real worry in this case) when the City contribute £1 in every £7 to the chancellor is a case in question. I know what we'd like to do in principle but how far dare we go?

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

A somewhat hamfisted attempt at deflecting the issue, Graham. Why don't you just answer Gary's question about why two weeks ago you had "no objection" to a referendum and now you've suddenly discovered sufficient objections to vote against it?

You're asking a lot there Wynonie, from a politican.

A straightforward answer, to a staightforward question.



Within minutes, of Monday night's results being announced in Westminster, our M.P., Graham Jones, was posting away on Twitter.

Smugly tweeting that the result of the vote, whether people deserve a referendum or not, was a 'disaster for the Tory party'.

Well, on this occasion, he was half right.

It was a disaster.

A disaster for democracy, and a disaster for the people of Britain.

Who were denied their democratic right to vote on this issue.

Political spin works both ways.

There were probably some, slightly more in touch with reality tweeters, posting that the people of this country have now seen which party has more M.P.'s prepared to become rebels, and vote for their constituents' rights, rather than their own, or their particular partys'.

We've all now witnessed there were considerably more brave souls in the Conservative party, prepared to do this, than the pitiful few there was from the Labour benches.

Graham, if you think this controversy is magically going to disappear, you're wrong...again.

The majority of people in this country are angry they have been denied a referendum, on such an important issue for the future of our country.

This is not going away, until this outrageous situation has been satisfactorily rectified.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by g jones

I'm a pragmatist and it hurts that sometimes jobs and growth mean principles have to be more measured. I believe the high pay for example should be dealt with a progressive tax system however there is a point where it is not in Britains interests and the rich hold us to random.

Bankers promising to flee to New York or Frankfurt (Euro 17 a real worry in this case) when the City contribute £1 in every £7 to the chancellor is a case in question. I know what we'd like to do in principle but how far dare we go?

Also, as various people have posted on here, it's really rather pointless of you to carry on spouting your pro-European Union argument.

We would have listened to you, had you voted in favour of giving the people a referendum, and there was now ample time for a reasoned public debate to take place, about the pro's and con's of E.U. membership.

Until this happens you may as well talk to the wall.

No one's listening.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by garinda

Also, as various people have posted on here, it's really rather pointless of you to carry on spouting your pro-European Union argument.

We would have listened to you, had you voted in favour of giving the people a referendum, and there was now ample time for a reasoned public debate to take place, about the pro's and con's of E.U. membership.

Until this happens you may as well talk to the wall.

No one's listening.

What

[Stumped]

Originally Posted by garinda

You're asking a lot there Wynonie, from a politican.

A straightforward answer, to a staightforward question.



Within minutes, of Monday night's results being announced in Westminster, our M.P., Graham Jones, was posting away on Twitter.

Smugly tweeting that the result of the vote, whether people deserve a referendum or not, was a 'disaster for the Tory party'.

Well, on this occasion, he was half right.

It was a disaster.

A disaster for democracy, and a disaster for the people of Britain.

Who were denied their democratic right to vote on this issue.

Political spin works both ways.

There were probably some, slightly more in touch with reality tweeters, posting that the people of this country have now seen which party has more M.P.'s prepared to become rebels, and vote for their constituents' rights, rather than their own, or their particular partys'.

We've all now witnessed there were considerably more brave souls in the Conservative party, prepared to do this, than the pitiful few there was from the Labour benches.

Graham, if you think this controversy is magically going to disappear, you're wrong...again.

The majority of people in this country are angry they have been denied a referendum, on such an important issue for the future of our country.

This is not going away, until this outrageous situation has been satisfactorily rectified.

The showdown may well come sooner than most folks think. The coalition is doomed, thanks to nitwit Clegg, which should result in a snap election when, I am convinced, the majority of the turncoat MP's will be confined to the dustbin of history, after which there may be something worth voting for. Can't wait.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Stumped

The showdown may well come sooner than most folks think. The coalition is doomed, thanks to nitwit Clegg, which should result in a snap election when, I am convinced, the majority of the turncoat MP's will be confined to the dustbin of history, after which there may be something worth voting for. Can't wait.

Would hope yer right Stumped,have me doubts though.

[g jones]

Douglas Carswell MP speaks for the 81 Tory rebels in the Sunday Telegraph. The argument is thus, we want the common market and free trade and we want to repeal workers rights to make sure this happens;

Douglas Carswell MP;
"We have to liberalise the rules and regulations that are preventing wealth creation – and that is going to have to mean extricating ourselves from many of the EU rules that are suffocating the economy.

In this Parliament, we should repatriate control over all aspects of employment law – including working time rules and regulation concerning temporary workers, and over the regulation of the City. If this was presented as part of a comprehensive package of measures to get the economy moving, Lib Dems wanting to be taken seriously on the deficit would have no choice but to back it."

Carswell says he is writing for the 81 rebels that wanted a referendum in order to 'hold a gun' to the EU to repatriate these laws and re-entering the EU trading zone on business only basis which would accept all the commerce directives (bananas, eccles cakes) and payments to the EU.

[jaysay]

Seems like he's talking a lot of sense to me, whichever side of the political fence you sit

[garinda]

Originally Posted by g jones

Douglas Carswell MP speaks for the 81 Tory rebels in the Sunday Telegraph. The argument is thus, we want the common market and free trade and we want to repeal workers rights to make sure this happens;

Douglas Carswell MP;
"We have to liberalise the rules and regulations that are preventing wealth creation – and that is going to have to mean extricating ourselves from many of the EU rules that are suffocating the economy.

In this Parliament, we should repatriate control over all aspects of employment law – including working time rules and regulation concerning temporary workers, and over the regulation of the City. If this was presented as part of a comprehensive package of measures to get the economy moving, Lib Dems wanting to be taken seriously on the deficit would have no choice but to back it."

Carswell says he is writing for the 81 rebels that wanted a referendum in order to 'hold a gun' to the EU to repatriate these laws and re-entering the EU trading zone on business only basis which would accept all the commerce directives (bananas, eccles cakes) and payments to the EU.

Pointless.

You rendered any reasoned debate invalid, when you voted that people don't have a right to vote in a referendum, and decide for themselves whether they want European Union membership, or not.

I'll ask again.

Why did you clearly state on this forum just over two weeks ago, that you have no problem with a referendum, mentioning democracy in that same post, then vote against it, denying people that democratic right?

We'll keep asking this, until you supply a satisfactory answer, regarding this contradiction.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by garinda

Pointless.

You rendered any reasoned debate invalid, when you voted that people don't have a right to vote in a referendum, and decide for themselves whether they want European Union membership, or not.

I'll ask again.

Why did you clearly state on this forum just over two weeks ago, that you have no problem with a referendum, mentioning democracy in that same post, then vote against it, denying people that democratic right?

We'll keep asking this, until you supply a satisfactory answer, regarding this contradiction.

Rindi its like a senior Labour councillor once said to me, "we have no choice we're told how we have to vote" when I asked him why after supporting a Tory proposal at full council, he voted against it


Baa Baa Baa Baa Baa

[garinda]

Originally Posted by g jones

Douglas Carswell MP speaks for the 81 Tory rebels in the Sunday Telegraph. The argument is thus, we want the common market and free trade and we want to repeal workers rights to make sure this happens;

Douglas Carswell MP;
"We have to liberalise the rules and regulations that are preventing wealth creation – and that is going to have to mean extricating ourselves from many of the EU rules that are suffocating the economy.

In this Parliament, we should repatriate control over all aspects of employment law – including working time rules and regulation concerning temporary workers, and over the regulation of the City. If this was presented as part of a comprehensive package of measures to get the economy moving, Lib Dems wanting to be taken seriously on the deficit would have no choice but to back it."

Carswell says he is writing for the 81 rebels that wanted a referendum in order to 'hold a gun' to the EU to repatriate these laws and re-entering the EU trading zone on business only basis which would accept all the commerce directives (bananas, eccles cakes) and payments to the EU.

If you want to blindly carry on arguing your pro-E.U. argument, though I fear you're whistling in the wind, as the polls on here show you're in a tiny minority, there are plenty of of threads for you to do that in.

This thread is about whether people think it right that you voted against allowing them a referendum on E.U. membership, which earlier this month you stated you had no problem with, before hypocritically voting against giving people that democratic right.

Please try and keep to the subject of this thread.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Rindi its like a senior Labour councillor once said to me, "we have no choice we're told how we have to vote" when I asked him why after supporting a Tory proposal at full council, he voted against it


Baa Baa Baa Baa Baa

Although there were 19 Labour M.P.'s with the balls to put their constituents' democratic rights, before their own personal agendas.