DNA Sampling in Schools

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by garinda

Just think of all the benefits if everyone was on a national data base, and everyone who entered the UK was too. Abandoned babies could be traced, rapists could be named and hopefully caught quicker, even paternity cases could be dealt with more quickly.

I don't think our civil rights would be infringed. The only people who would object would be the criminals and the heedless men who don't want to pay for thei own offspring.

Im sorry but i really object to it. If I handed in my DNA now and if they could run it against ah existing database of unsolved crimes im sure they wouldn't find anything, and yet im completly against this being put in to action.

If you use the logic of 'only people against it are those who have commited crimes' I can quite easily apply it to the following:

Chipping everyone so you know where they are 100% of the time. Having video cameras in everyones house. Of course, nothing will be done unless you break the law, and then you deserve it... but thats really not at all the point. I certainly would not like my privacy infringed in such a way, and yet it uses the same basic argument.

Ps. Im not *completly* disagreeing with the DNA Database PLAN. But I am disagreeing because the government or somebody else could easily misuse such a mass database.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Cyfr

Im sorry but i really object to it. If I handed in my DNA now and if they could run it against ah existing database of unsolved crimes im sure they wouldn't find anything, and yet im completly against this being put in to action.

I bet you would think differently if someone had mutilated your wifes corpse after sexually assaulting and murdering her.

[SPUGGIE J]

Originally Posted by Neil

I bet you would think differently if someone had mutilated your wifes corpse after sexually assaulting and murdering her.

That no doubt would be a different matter. Then the perp could argue exactly the same as to why they shouldnt give DNA.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Cyfr

Im sorry but i really object to it. If I handed in my DNA now and if they could run it against ah existing database of unsolved crimes im sure they wouldn't find anything, and yet im completly against this being put in to action.

If you use the logic of 'only people against it are those who have commited crimes' I can quite easily apply it to the following:

Chipping everyone so you know where they are 100% of the time. Having video cameras in everyones house. Of course, nothing will be done unless you break the law, and then you deserve it... but thats really not at all the point. I certainly would not like my privacy infringed in such a way, and yet it uses the same basic argument.

Ps. Im not *completly* disagreeing with the DNA Database PLAN. But I am disagreeing because the government or somebody else could easily misuse such a mass database.

No, still totally disagree with you.

As the resident wooly liberal on here, and the first to bang on about the errosion of civil liberties, a national data base of DNA for everyone in the country can only be for the good.

What are your fears about its possible missuse? You don't really say, just talk about CCTV in everyone's home, which is a little bit of an hysterical reaction if you ask me.

By the way, from lots of things you've posted about your views on differing subjects on here, you won't be a Conservative for much longer. I'm not being patronisinmg by saying that, just that you are way to sensitive and caring.

[junetta]

This is totally out of order. I worked for the Police for thirteen years and remember the whole DNA thingy being set up. Parents have to consent and a solicitor should be present. The Police cannot authorize a test unless a crime has been committed.

Go and complain, your children don't need this.

[mani]

there's always pro's and con's to this

and the biggest one is the scope for error. there wud b too much on risk if there was an error. ithe crb confuses ppl on mere dob and name details if one of these went to the wrong person then the results wud b damaging. ppl like garinda wud b claimin to b parents of kids they dont even know *L*

2ndly its the whole big brother thing.

and finally whats to say a lil corrupt guy *like me* workin for the dna wudnt line his own back pockets to sell the dna to some company wanting to clone certain people?

[andrewb]

Mani hit the nail on the head. Cloning, corruption, errors, theft. Perhaps the current government would not do anything funny, but you have absolutly NO idea who will be in power in 10/20/30 years time and I dont want some private company mining my data any more than they already do.

This is not just a complaint about DNA, but whats to stop them compiling other stuff in and profiling us?

ps. I'll always be a liberal conservative, at least until I become old and grumpy then i'll become a proper one

[garinda]

Unless you live in a glass box in total isolation, we are profiled everyday. If you have a bank account, a credit card etc. there are people monitering your spending habits, movement etc., so what?

I really can see very little negatives to this, and plenty of positives. I'm afarid we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by junetta

Go and complain, your children don't need this.

I think you misunderstood the reason for this thread. No one has had their DNA tested. It was just an example of how samples are taken.

Your reply is a perfect example of how many people half understand something and then jump to the wrong conclusion. This is not an attack on you in any way Junetta, just pointing out that we all need to understand the facts before saying if something is right or wrong.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by mani

and finally whats to say a lil corrupt guy *like me* workin for the dna wudnt line his own back pockets to sell the dna to some company wanting to clone certain people?

Again more missunderstood info. How can you clone a human into another one from a database record of DNA. This is not Star Trek, cloning requires the actual cells from the donar.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Neil

Again more missunderstood info. How can you clone a human into another one from a database record of DNA. This is not Star Trek, cloning requires the actual cells from the donar.

So you can't clone a dinosaur from a bit of DNA from a bone in Blackburn Museum?


Damn, that's my nephews Christmas present back to the drawing board then.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by garinda

So you can't clone a dinosaur from a bit of DNA from a bone in Blackburn Museum?

You might be able to because you have the bone (erm I wish I hadn't said that) itself and not just computer record of the DNA.

[SPUGGIE J]

Originally Posted by Neil

You might be able to because you have the bone (erm I wish I hadn't said that) itself and not just computer record of the DNA.

A Jurrassic Park is to open on the moors above Ossy!!

It would depend if it was actual bone with marrow or wether it was a mineralised fossil. Mind you can you imagine the science classes at school if you could recreate dinasours they wouldnt bunk of then.

[jambutty]

Nice can of worms Tinkerbelle.

It would appear that most contributors to this thread favour a DNA database for everybody and some advocate taking a sample at birth. They counter objections to a DNA database with the ubiquitous “If you are not doing anything wrong you have nothing to fear” and it would help to catch criminals. It would also help to trace wayward fathers, rapists and help to solve paternity cases. By the way there are also wayward mothers.

But can we just put this into some sort of perspective? What percentage of the population of the UK are convicted, known or suspected criminals? At just 1% that would be around 600,000 people. Out of those 600,000 how many have been convicted on DNA evidence alone? I would suggest that not very many. How many bodies are found in a year with no clue to the identity? DNA would be useful in such cases but should the whole population be screened to establish the identity of just a few people? How many babies are abandoned each year? Are there that many rapists, wayward fathers or paternity suits to warrant mass DNA screening? I accept that just one rape is one rape too many but should the whole of the population have to have their civil rights infringed for the sake of a tiny percentage of the population.

So some 60 million people would be, as ‘The Prisoner’ might have uttered, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed and numbered for the sake of less than 1% of the population. That is a Draconian measure too far.

I can see an argument that i-d cards may infringe civil liberties, but who besides those with something to hide could possibily complain?

A DNA profile is as accurate an ID as you can get these days garinda so if you accept that ID cards may infringe civil liberties then it follows that so does a DNA profile. I’m not a criminal or a heedless man garinda and I object to a DNA database of every living person in this land. Or because I object does that make me a criminal or a heedless man?

Originally Posted by Neil

I think you misunderstood the reason for this thread. No one has had their DNA tested. It was just an example of how samples are taken.

Your reply is a perfect example of how many people half understand something and then jump to the wrong conclusion. This is not an attack on you in any way Junetta, just pointing out that we all need to understand the facts before saying if something is right or wrong.

Pardon me Neil but the opening post stated a fact and then offered an opinion on that fact. The opinion being that Tinkerbelle thought that it would be a good idea to DNA screen school children and then asked, “What do you lot think?” Having offered an opinion and asked a question surely members have a right to reply?

No computer database is safe from prying eyes if they are determined enough and Insurance companies would relish the thought of getting a DNA profile on everybody. “Sorry Mr Bloggs we can’t insure you. Your DNA profile suggest that you have a propensity to having a heart attack before you are 60.” Or “Cancer is waiting for you.”

Or taking it even further down the Big Brother road – no Mr Jones you cannot marry Miss Green because your DNA profile suggest that any offspring might be *!!**????.

If there is to be a national DNA database it should be limited to convicted criminals and volunteers only.

Slowly and ever so surely we are staggering down the road to a total control of the people by the government, industry and commerce. A national DNA database is just the start.

The other day whilst at the checkout in Asda, Blackburn, as I handed over the money I was asked for my postcode.
“Why” I queried.
The checkout girl couldn’t tell me other than she had to ask each person for their postcode.
“Sorry but I do not want to tell you” I replied, took my change and strolled out.

Believe it or not I get phishing phone calls now. Can you tell me if it is Mr so and so who lives at xx? No prizes for guessing what my answer is. A polite answer I might add.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by jambutty

If there is to be a national DNA database it should be limited to convicted criminals and volunteers only.

That would be of very limited use wouldn't it?