Does power corrupt? - Page 5

Ken Moss · 17-08-2012, 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guinness

Strange post since your last post agrees that, in the main, you need party support to be elected.

As usual our local meglomaniac MP has only half a grasp of logical thought..There is no queue because of the reasons you outlined in your last post and I'd also suggest that most people aren't prepared to sacrifice independent thought and personal dignity just to become a councillor. (walkouts anyone?)

It's actually more a case of very few people having the energy to go through the rigmarole of elections to try and improve their locale when life already presents us with more than enough problems of our own to sort out.

I'm glad I did it and I enjoy the work but there's a lot of flack and every little problem is your fault. You've really got to want to do the job, especially when you realise that everyone who voted for the other guy automatically dislikes you when you win your election. The law of diminishing returns also comes into play when you think that for every person you please there are another ten who are angry (and ALWAYS more vocal about it).

Nobody really adores their local councillor and yet the vast majority have only stood up to try to make life better for everyone. Even Winston Churchill, the most popular politician of all time, got voted out by a disillusioned Great British public.

I'm not quite sure why you view Graham Jones as a megalomaniac and in any case he's spot on in this instance. There isn't a queue of people waiting to be councillors and I've been told that I'm the first in a long time to actively come forward for consideration rather than being asked to stand.

There are several prominent residents in Rishton who I've asked why they never stood for Council and it's always because they simply couldn't be doing with the hassle.

MargaretR · 19-08-2012, 11:32

Corruption is an age old problem, born out of greed.

It began with 'pursuit of happiness' and the misguided notion that possession of material goods can bring 'happiness'.

Humanity is at last waking to the knowledge that it doesn't.

The exposure of corruption has become a daily event as those involved in it regain a concience and become 'whistleblowers'.

This has the potential to be very disruptive to our society, but a society built on lies and greed isn't worth living in.

When financial systems collapse people survive on the amount of 'goodwill' they have stored from their actions towards others.

Now is the time to consider whether you have earned enough (goodwill).

cashman · 19-08-2012, 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by MargaretR

Corruption is an age old problem, born out of greed.
but a society built on lies and greed isn't worth living in.

Well its far preferable than the option.

Houseboy · 20-08-2012, 08:03

Hi Jay,
I wasn't suggesting that we become all American and mom's apple pie, heaven forfend, just that there are checks and balances in the US systems that are there to (supposedly) prevent anyone from becoming too powerful and that can never be a bad thing can it?
If power corrupts, which was the original question I believe, then not allowing too much of it must be welcomed.

jaysay · 20-08-2012, 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Houseboy

Hi Jay,
I wasn't suggesting that we become all American and mom's apple pie, heaven forfend, just that there are checks and balances in the US systems that are there to (supposedly) prevent anyone from becoming too powerful and that can never be a bad thing can it?
If power corrupts, which was the original question I believe, then not allowing too much of it must be welcomed.

Well to be honest I haven't seen too much corruption in my lifetime and certainly not in local politics, there's a difference between corruption and naughties as in the expenses scandal, that was because the system was wrong and had been handed down through the ages, mind you it all depends what your calling corruption doesn't

Houseboy · 20-08-2012, 08:51

I agree there are different levels of corruption and there is certainly a difference between things that go on at local level, whatever that might be, and national and international level. This is an interesting topic though and I agree that most of us on here have never really come into direct contact with corruption at it's worst. I think you have to have a certain amount of power in the first place to encounter it.

jaysay · 20-08-2012, 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Houseboy

I agree there are different levels of corruption and there is certainly a difference between things that go on at local level, whatever that might be, and national and international level. This is an interesting topic though and I agree that most of us on here have never really come into direct contact with corruption at it's worst. I think you have to have a certain amount of power in the first place to encounter it.

Power comes with the position, that's probably why they call it being in power

Houseboy · 20-08-2012, 15:17

Nice one Jay.
Incidentally, I believe that there are two forms of corruption with regard to power. The corrupt person who seeks and ultimately gains power and the person of principle who is corrupted by opportunity and temptation. I honestly don't know which is worse. I suppose the one who is already corrupt is at least sticking to their principles whilst they who succumbe to corruption abandon theirs (Lib Dems again).
What does anyone else think?

jaysay · 20-08-2012, 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Houseboy

Nice one Jay.
Incidentally, I believe that there are two forms of corruption with regard to power. The corrupt person who seeks and ultimately gains power and the person of principle who is corrupted by opportunity and temptation. I honestly don't know which is worse. I suppose the one who is already corrupt is at least sticking to their principles whilst they who succumbed to corruption abandon theirs (Lib Dems again).
What does anyone else think?

I actually think that nobody is corrupt when they set out, be it in politics or any other walk of life, the corruption comes, through opportunity, some people keep on the straight and narrow others are temped by that opportunity. Its just the same as finding a wallet in the street with £200 in it, what do you do, well I'd hand it into the police station, somebody else might think its their luck day and pocket the money, personally I couldn't live with myself if I did that, others wouldn't have any qualms what so ever, its how your made

Margaret Pilkington · 20-08-2012, 18:34

I think that some people will see the 'main chance' and make the most of it......those who start out straight and are seduced by opportunity would always have had that streak in them.

And there is no difference in them...they are both as bad as one another.

Power is not a licence to do as you please at the expense of others....because there is always somebody who pays...usually the little man.

Houseboy · 21-08-2012, 08:02

Well said both of you. You are quite probably right. I'm not entirely convinced that no-one sets out to be corrupt though. I think most people have ideals and want to do good but, using an extreme example I admit, do you think Adolf Hitler started off intending to do good? It is quite possible that he originally wanted to make thngs better for the German people but the consequences of his actions need no comment here.
Having said that I may be defeating my own argument as it could be viewed I suppose that Hitler wasn't actually "corrupt" in the way we are discussing. I suppose there is a difference between being corrupt and being, for want oof a better term, evil.

jaysay · 21-08-2012, 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Houseboy

Well said both of you. You are quite probably right. I'm not entirely convinced that no-one sets out to be corrupt though. I think most people have ideals and want to do good but, using an extreme example I admit, do you think Adolf Hitler started off intending to do good? It is quite possible that he originally wanted to make things better for the German people but the consequences of his actions need no comment here.
Having said that I may be defeating my own argument as it could be viewed I suppose that Hitler wasn't actually "corrupt" in the way we are discussing. I suppose there is a difference between being corrupt and being, for want of a better term, evil.

In Hitlers case I think there must have been something seriously wrong with him from square one, I have never heard of any suggestion that his intentions were ever anything but evil

Ken Moss · 21-08-2012, 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

In Hitlers case I think there must have been something seriously wrong with him from square one, I have never heard of any suggestion that his intentions were ever anything but evil

By The Laws of the Internet, does the mention of Hitler not bring this discussion to a close??