Don't bug me teacher, eating me breakfast.

[shakermaker]

Originally Posted by Nutty Butty lady

" How rude some people are. When i rang the observer i never once thought about my profits. when i confronted this teacher about her actions she was very rude towards myself and other people in my cafe. we were all disgusted at the way these YOUNG ADULTS were being spoken too. Like i said to the teacher there was no need to be screaming at these school kids on the street like she did. she made a fool of her self as you can imagine how busy the area is at 8:45. These school kids would have been just a few minutes late but when they got to school they were locked out making them nearly half an hour late. were is the sense. i understand lateness is a problem in schools and always will be unfortunately. when i spoke to Mr Burke all he said was that letters would be sent home to late children. A letter does nothing these days. my 4 year old son speaks to people with respect. Its just a shame teachers cant let alone a senior teacher. Every one is so quick to call school kids of today. I simply wanted to make people understand that its not always the parents fault. My point was if you give young adults respect then they will learn how to show it. When the school used to let the last years out at dinner it gave them a sense of maturity and something to look forward to in your last year. Now in my eyes they are locked away like animals. some may not agree but thats my view and im sure the school kids would agree. like i said i didnt once think about my profits, just about sticking up for the local school kids for a change. "
stacey everett, oswaldtwistle
9/07/2008 at 17:35

From the view of a young person who left high school just three years ago, her views are entirely correct. She should be commended for speaking out about the teacher's actions. Hopefully it will make people who demand a 'fight fire with fire' approach to tardiness a little wiser, or looking at this thread perhaps it won't.
Displaying anger towards young people only breeds more of the same. It can't achieve anything. What may see a positive effect is an attempt to raise educational standards. Raise them to a level where pupils actually want to be in school on time every morning, or at least see the value of punctuality before they break the rules. I think that's what a lot of people are missing here - modern high school pupils are losing the value of punctuality and polite behaviour etc, rather than intentionally and consistently going against these values and breaking the rules. You can't be dismissing morals and values if you aren't given any to follow in the first place. It's not the pupil's fault that the education system in this country is failing them completely. Children spend the most of their time in education and the goverment are only concerned with making them exam passing machines for these wonderful (urgh) 'targets' they set, rather than bringing up PEOPLE.

[lancsdave]

Originally Posted by shakermaker

From the view of a young person who left high school just three years ago, her views are entirely correct. She should be commended for speaking out about the teacher's actions. Hopefully it will make people who demand a 'fight fire with fire' approach to tardiness a little wiser, or looking at this thread perhaps it won't.
Displaying anger towards young people only breeds more of the same. It can't achieve anything. What may see a positive effect is an attempt to raise educational standards. Raise them to a level where pupils actually want to be in school on time every morning, or at least see the value of punctuality before they break the rules. I think that's what a lot of people are missing here - modern high school pupils are losing the value of punctuality and polite behaviour etc, rather than intentionally and consistently going against these values and breaking the rules. You can't be dismissing morals and values if you aren't given any to follow in the first place. It's not the pupil's fault that the education system in this country is failing them completely. Children spend the most of their time in education and the goverment are only concerned with making them exam passing machines for these wonderful (urgh) 'targets' they set, rather than bringing up PEOPLE.

She openly admits the kids would have been late for school by being camped in her shop. On the one hand she thinks adults should respect kids, on the other hand as long as she is getting the money then she is quite happy to see kids disprespect the rules set out for them. Double standards.

I should also add that we have still only had one side of the story which is a shame because the loudest to shout are the ones who are heard

[jambutty]

Originally Posted by Gayle

We have explained why we thought the teacher was in the right many times. All you have done is make excuses for the young people so it's the same difference.

Do you accept (ignoring the teacher's actions completely) that the young people were in the wrong by being out of school at that time?

Sorry Gayle but the one thing that I haven’t done is make excuses for the kids not being in school. I defy you to find where I have sided with them.

My point is and always has been that the teacher did not have the authority to harangue the pupils out of school even if it was during school hours.

My first post in this thread on page 6 post 88 was responding to Jae Swift’s post 14, which by then had already drifted off the subject was:
Actually Jae Swift has a point.

When I was at school, albeit a long while ago, we had two or even three teachers who were specialists in a particular subject and knew it thoroughly. But s/he was not restricted to that subject and could teach other subjects with varying degrees of ability. However the specialist teacher would teach that subject to all classes of all years.

Any “clever clogs” in the class couldn’t baffle the teacher because the teacher always knew more than the pupil and thus gained the class’ respect. But there always have been and always will be some teachers who just cannot catch and hold the pupil’s interest. A disinterested pupil is a bored pupil and a bored pupil is likely to be a disruptive pupil.

The other side of that coin became evident during my first 12 months in the navy. We had instructor lieutenants who boffed up on the next days teaching the night before. Their tuition was not very good and it was up to the CPO teaching the practical side to get us to understand what the instructor lieutenant tried to teach.

There is nothing worse than being taught by someone who doesn’t really know their subject.

This respect thing starts in the home and should be reinforced in the first school. But then there is the disruptive element, where the teachers cannot or are not allowed to quash. By the time that the kids get to secondary school the rotten apple in the barrel has tainted other pupils.

As for the butty shop – well it’s none of the school’s business who buys what and when. The teacher who stormed in the shop was out of order. She/he should have been in school doing his/her job and not acting like some avenging Truant Officer. A schools’ responsibility starts and ends at the school gate.

That last paragraph brought out the knives, the abuse etc. because my view did not conform to the views of many others.

No one has been able to show that my view was incorrect. Show me a law or a rule which allows a teacher to harangue pupils off the school premises whether during school hours or not, except on an official trip away from school.

There has been a lot of nit picking and skirting around the issue and I didn’t start it but I reserve the right to defend myself and answer in kind if I so choose.

[jambutty]

Originally Posted by katex

Not the wisest of things to say .. obviously you never made it onto a school debating team, and if you did, should be thrown off without further ado.

Now there’s a statement I never expected to read, or in view of the content of this thread maybe I should have.

Suggesting that someone should be thrown off the debating team because of their views on the subject.

That if anything confirms that if some people do not conform to the majority view, then they shouldn’t make them.

Interesting! Very, very interesting!

[jambutty]

Originally Posted by lancsdave

If you don't like it on here why bother posting ?

Can I turn that around and ask, if you don’t like what you read, why do you continue to read and comment?

[lancsdave]

Originally Posted by jambutty

Can I turn that around and ask, if you don’t like what you read, why do you continue to read and comment?

No you may not

[jambutty]

Originally Posted by Eric

Jambutty is not the "other side", unless the other side means "to pontificate" or "to belittle" ... and he probably looks forward to responses to his didacticsm ...

And it should be fine for a teacher to "take your responsibility"; for a teacher does act in loco parentis, something which you should probably know.

Yes indeed but only on the school premises or on an official trip away from the school.

Not in a nearby shop during school hours.

That is the point that most people are deliberately overlooking because to address it they would have to acknowledge that my view was the correct view. And some people won’t do that come hell or high water.

[jambutty]

Originally Posted by Lilly

No-one who gave a damn for their kids education would fail to back that teacher for what she did.

So you condone unilateral action even if the teacher didn’t have the authority.

I wonder what the view would have been if one of those kids chased out of the shop got knocked down crossing the road?

[Gayle]

Originally Posted by jambutty

Yes indeed but only on the school premises or on an official trip away from the school.

Not in a nearby shop during school hours.

That is the point that most people are deliberately overlooking because to address it they would have to acknowledge that my view was the correct view. And some people won’t do that come hell or high water.

Because - we don't agree that your view is correct.

The people who disagree with you are the ones that, like myself, believe that the teacher had every right to go in and fish the 'young people' out of the shop.

They were late and should have been in school. Therefore on school time! So we believe that once on school time, the teachers are taking on the parental responsibility and were in the right.

As for the teacher being out of school, that's the point that we don't know. We don't know if the headmaster requested the teacher went to catch all the truants, we don't know if the teacher in question was supposed to be in class and we don't know if the teacher was getting herself a bacon butty and unhappy to be caught out. What we also don't know is if the pupils in question had a history of being late or absent!

And if we don't know, neither do you - therefore, your continual insistence that the teacher was in the wrong has no basis either.

[jambutty]

Originally Posted by katex

Theseshool kids would have been just a few minutes late but when they got to school they were locked out making them nearly half an hour late.

Much obliged for posting the shopkeeper’s letter to the Observer.

Are kids locked out if they are a few minutes late for school? Why and for how long?

[lancsdave]

Originally Posted by Gayle

As for the teacher being out of school, that's the point that we don't know. We don't know if the headmaster requested the teacher went to catch all the truants, we don't know if the teacher in question was supposed to be in class and we don't know if the teacher was getting herself a bacon butty and unhappy to be caught out. What we also don't know is if the pupils in question had a history of being late or absent!

Neither do we know if the story is 100% correct in the first place. We have had only one version of it, and as that person has quite openly admitted she doesn't have a problem with kids being late for school,

Theseshool kids would have been just a few minutes late

then the credibility of the story teller is hardly convincing to me.

[jambutty]

Originally Posted by shakermaker

From the view of a young person who left high school just three years ago, her views are entirely correct. She should be commended for speaking out about the teacher's actions. Hopefully it will make people who demand a 'fight fire with fire' approach to tardiness a little wiser, or looking at this thread perhaps it won't.
Displaying anger towards young people only breeds more of the same. It can't achieve anything. What may see a positive effect is an attempt to raise educational standards. Raise them to a level where pupils actually want to be in school on time every morning, or at least see the value of punctuality before they break the rules. I think that's what a lot of people are missing here - modern high school pupils are losing the value of punctuality and polite behaviour etc, rather than intentionally and consistently going against these values and breaking the rules. You can't be dismissing morals and values if you aren't given any to follow in the first place. It's not the pupil's fault that the education system in this country is failing them completely. Children spend the most of their time in education and the goverment are only concerned with making them exam passing machines for these wonderful (urgh) 'targets' they set, rather than bringing up PEOPLE.

I’ll go along with your view for the most part.

I would just add that the pupils themselves also have some responsibility in this equation.

[jambutty]

Originally Posted by Gayle

Because - we don't agree that your view is correct.

The people who disagree with you are the ones that, like myself, believe that the teacher had every right to go in and fish the 'young people' out of the shop.

They were late and should have been in school. Therefore on school time! So we believe that once on school time, the teachers are taking on the parental responsibility and were in the right.

As for the teacher being out of school, that's the point that we don't know. We don't know if the headmaster requested the teacher went to catch all the truants, we don't know if the teacher in question was supposed to be in class and we don't know if the teacher was getting herself a bacon butty and unhappy to be caught out. What we also don't know is if the pupils in question had a history of being late or absent!

And if we don't know, neither do you - therefore, your continual insistence that the teacher was in the wrong has no basis either.

And I believe that a home owner has every right to tackle a burglar without fear of prosecution. Yet people have been prosecuted for defending their home. I myself received a police caution for bloodying a burglar’s nose before he managed to make his escape, although he was quickly caught and laid a complaint against me. My belief doesn’t make it lawful if the law says otherwise.

The whole case on supporting the teacher has been based on a belief or a desire.

It isn’t what you believe but what is. A teacher does not have any authority over the pupils outside of the school premises regardless of whether it is during school hours or not.

I agree we do not know why the teacher was out of school and in the butty shop but I would suggest that in view of the published report and the subsequent response to it the headmaster would have told the press she was at the butty shop lawfully, if indeed she was. As it is all he would say is something about sending letters to the homes of the late arrivals, this would suggest that she was at fault. And the school closed ranks to prevent it becoming known that teachers were in the habit of leaving the school premises during school hours.

If you were the head, in view of your beliefs on this issue, wouldn’t you have claimed that the teacher was right to do what she did? Or would the fact that she shouldn’t have been in the shop at that time prevent you from making that claim and therefore saying nothing?

[jambutty]

Originally Posted by lancsdave

Neither do we know if the story is 100% correct in the first place. We have had only one version of it, and as that person has quite openly admitted she doesn't have a problem with kids being late for school,
then the credibility of the story teller is hardly convincing to me.

If the shopkeeper’s version of events and her subsequent reply in the Observer were incorrect then a case of libel would undoubtedly be successful.

I look forward to the LEA bringing such a case on behalf of the teacher or maybe her union if she is a member of one.

I won’t hold my breath though.

But this is all still skirting around the real issue. Would that be because the teacher’s cheerleaders would have to admit that the teacher should not have been outside of school during school hours, which is the issue. And of course they would also have to admit that I have been right in my view. Such an admission would stick in the craw of some.

[cashman]

wouldn't stick in my craw, i agree wi ya sometimes, sometimes i don't, i have been known to be wrong before n probably again, i honestly think though that you never think yer wrong.