East Lancashire decline

[JohnW]

Do posters think that Accrington has declined more, less, or about the same as other similar towns in the area? I didn't get to visit most places around the area when I was over recently. So, Hasingden, Preston, Burnley, Bacup, Blackburn, Rawtenstall etc., have they declined badly also? Do any of these stand out as having declined less than the others? The only other town centre, of the ones mentioned above, which I managed to have a reasonably good look at, was Preston. I have to say, it really seemed to be thriving and looked as good, if not better, than when I last saw it six years ago. Would the fact that it has become a city have anything to do with that? If posters consider that Preston has declined less radically, what lessons can we learn from that and what applications can be made to emulate their success.

Please, let us treat all suggestions with some respect. If people are afraid to voice their opinions in case they are ridiculed, we may miss out on some good ideas.

[Tealeaf]

From the viewpoint of someone who has been a semi-exile for the last 30 years there has no doubt been a massive relative decline, and from certain perspectives an absolute decline over the period.
To the extent that this has been due to pretty severe stuctural changes within the local economy is understandable, but to the extent that it has also been due to malpractice, waste & obvious lack of foresight and imagination on the part of local government is unforgivable. We have just seen how sixty thousand quid has just been blown on a flag-waving jam butty party followed up by christening a lump of rusty scrap metal. This illustrates the point perfectly.
There is no doubt that most of the rest of Lancashire has fared far better than NE Lancs so then the question is has Hyndburn done better or worse than Blackburn & Burnley? I would argue worse; certainly, there have been serious attempts in the latter towns to preserve their best potential assets (Burnley is just about to develop it's historic Weavers Triangle area) while Hyndburns response has been to degrade any historic or potential asset, while at the same time chucking money at some short-term temporary fix. Hence we lose the magnificent Old Grammar School & get get one hundred & fifty thousand quids worth of fountain in return.That lasts three weeks...so after three years we get the Cog Wheel. We take a nicely laid out town centre throughfare with flower gardens & benches and after several years of sustained effort we get tarmac jungle, encircled by collapsing flagstones,
surrounded by shops alternatively selling everything for a quid or simply unoccupied.

But then that's Accrington town centre. We used to have one of those in Church....but no more, I'm afraid. Ossy's done OK - they've still got their shops...so's Rishton & Harwood...even Clayton. But Church? No. We've declined worse of the lot.

[KIPAX]

You would ahve to be very knowledgeable of all surroundign towns and the ins and outs of the council and history of the places to answer that question IMHO I doubt many are...if any.

[KIPAX]

Preston is far bigger than Accy and as it only just got made into a City it cant have made a visible inpact yet

[Tealeaf]

Originally Posted by KIPAX

You would ahve to be very knowledgeable of all surroundign towns and the ins and outs of the council and history of the places to answer that question IMHO I doubt many are...if any.

Why would you have to be very knowledgeable? There are people who have lived in Accy or Church all their lives and the only thing they require is their eyesight and their memory to tell them that where once there was civic pride, now there is public squalor and waste, organised by a council where once there was an ideal of public service and where now there are petty squables, inflated allowances and fancy but meaningless titles.

[KIPAX]

One minute Church is part of Accy (Cricket thread) and the next its a different town ???

My point is... To answer the question of which town has suffered the biggest decline then you would have to be pretty knowledgeable of all the surrunding towns to compare.... Wouldn't you agree?

I dont know enough about other towns to compare and would be suprised if others do... Not shocked.. just suprised

[Doug]

I understand KIPAX...I think the nice gentleman may do also......But I take your point that’s why I've kept my gob shut.

Preston has developed and has seen increased prosperity over the last few years, and like you say it has City status now.. It won't suffer.

Church is part of Accrington, despite my comments in another thread, but just to complicate and confuse the issue it’s a town in its own right for some…..

[KIPAX]

I would also like to take up the original point... Why does JW or anyone else think Accrington is in the decline...The question itself would seem to suggest that everyone thinks the place has gone to the dogs... I for one see vast improvements over the last 15 years....

Perhaps you have to live here to see them?


I think preston has declined... Students have taken over the place.. infested the town (sorry city) and made it a far worse place to live... preston is the very place I left to live here.. So I would dissagree that preston is thriving and Accy is in decline.

[KIPAX]

I suppose it all depends on what angle where looking at in decline/prospor... so we mean how it looks... or financial or popularity or just in general... or other?

[JohnW]

You have to realize that it's 50 years since I lived in the area. I had not been back there for six years until recently. I'm sorry to report that, in my opinion, it has declined. I can only say it as I see it. Much of the way in to Accrington down through Church along Blackburn Road looks like what I remember Liverpool's Scotland Road looking like in the seventies. Metal grills covering shop windows. This was at about noon on a Thursday. I can only conclude that the shops are empty/out of business. Generally, I would have thought that a financially prosperous area would be reflected in how the place looked. It does not give the impression of being financially prosperous. There was not the old "hustle and bustle" of a thriving community evident in the short time I was there. It was not a particularly nice day, but it wasn't ****ing down either. Anyway, Lancastrians are not known to hibernate just because of a little inclement weather.

On the other hand, I had the impression of resurgence in Preston. Perhaps Preston was not so reliant upon the cotton industry as were the towns further east. Maybe they have adapted to change better. That is what I am trying to find out. This may bring forward ideas of how to make changes for the better in Accrington and surrounding districts. Even if it doesn't, we won't have lost anything apart from a little effort to give it some thought.

My intention is not to insult the place or cause some kind of bitter argument. If anyone has percieved otherwise, I apologise for not making myself clear.

[slater_scott]

I believe blackburn will be a lot lot better, when all the regeneration has took place, on lord square, sudell cross. It will boast better shops and suddel square will be pedestrianised.
And in the LET yesterday it said margo grimshaw was to knock down some clubs and build high class apartments with very good shops on the ground floor.

As for accrington, the shops are better since they built those new ones, even though some are empty. But they have left broadway in a terrible mess which is a shame as it did look nice before.
The viaduct area is nice with the new cinema and bowling alley which are good for the town.

[lettie]

I have lived in Hyndburn all my life, the first 8 years in Church, the rest in Accy, and I can say with absolute conviction that there has been a definate decline. I'm not just talking about town centre, but other areas that were once nice residential areas have now become homes to those ruled by yob mentality. I remember when Within Grove estate was nice, I even attended a street party there for the Queen's Silver Jubilee. Now it looks like Beirut on a bad day. I don't think that this is just Accy. I can only speak for the areas I work in and drive round regularly. Parts of Blackburn, Darwen and Clitheroe are as rough as a bear's backside too.
Decline is not wholly the fault of local government, although they could do more to improve environs, keep a basic standard of cleanliness, maintain buildings etc. What we are seeing locally and nationally is a social decline of individuals standards, a loutish culture where people honestly believe that they are entitled to everything for nothing. Where a minority (because they still are a minority) of people let their kids run wild and terrorise decent folk, drop litter, break glass in the street, vandalise cars and buildings. I am not exaggerating as these things used to be a nightly occurence round my way (thank God for ASBO's)

[KIPAX]

But is it more in decline than other towns.. thats the question and unless you know the other towns as well..preston has been given as an example...then you cant know which is in more of a decline..

Isnt CCTV a plus for accrington.. doesnt it make the town center safer? was accy one of the first to employ this and it has proved its worth...

also ya dont see drunks and winos in the town anymore..

blackburn used to smell really bad on a hot day of hops.. doesnt smell as bad nowerdays.. still smells but not as bad

[Darby]

I think that quite a lot of us have been brought-up, or lived in Accy /Church / Ossy since childhood. Some of us have moved away and others have stayed. Those of us who are spread around the world have our memories of the town, and no doubt we remember the good things and forget the worst. So we can be accused of looking at things through rose coloured glasses.
But, we now look at Accy with a more experienced view (having lived in many other places in the world), and can judge Accy, not only against our memories, but against other places in the world. I'm not talking about Preston or Blackburn, but against national and international places.
I use to work in Blackburn and in Preston, and knew both towns (well Preston a city...now) very well. I visit them quite regularly, and several other surrounding towns.

So I too have an overview of Accy..in comparison with neighbouring towns and European towns.

Accrington is definitely on the decline. There are many reasons for this decline;
1.The breakup of the local councils and amalgamation into more cost efficient ones (that's the theory).
2. The loss of manufacturing industries.
3. The decline in social and moral attitudes in general (that can be said throughout Europe).
4. The ascendancy of the bean-counters (control of everything by accountancy - also valid throughout the world).
5. The rise of political correctness in everyday life.
And (for Accy in particular)
6. The extremely low standard of elected council members.
7. The couldn't-care attitudes of a minority (but ever rising minority) of the population.
Finally,
8. Lack of self-discipline in general (also world-wide).

If Accringtons' best attribute is its people, then its people must be a part of that decline.

Don't for one minute get me wrong!........I know of some of the best people in the world and they were born and bred in Accy. But I'm looking at decline in general; materialistic and socialistic.

Whatever you believe; that I'm right or I'm wrong in my opinion, doesn't avoid the fact; that every city, every town, and every village has two sides, and people are the largest part of them.

[KIPAX]

If Accringtons' best attribute is its people, then its people must be a part of that decline.

If you dont live here then how on earth can you possibly know if its in decline? You can look at the town and comment on what you see.. but you cant possibly know enough to comment on anything else... Thats directed at ALL people who dont live in the town. You certainly can't make statements about the people of accrington as you would ahve to be here now and meeting with them on a regular basis to be able to have such an informed opinion.

To say the people of accringtn are in decline from hundreds of miles away is a little off IMHO