Ed Miliband - Page 10

garinda · 09-01-2012, 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToffeeGuy

But becoming the anti-E.U. party would make them unelectable.

Not on here, it wouldn't.

Every poll that we've had on E.U. membership over the years, shows there's a massive majority who want out.

Margaret Pilkington · 09-01-2012, 07:27

Graham, you are talking to us as if we are five year olds. condescending and patronising and your posts above do not allay my concerns one little bit.
We may Have MEP's over there, but like the MP's over here in our parliament(who are supposed to represent the will of their electorate) thay don't seem to listen to the real concerns of the people they represent.
It is not the MEP's who rule europe......it is the faceless Bureaucrats.

Margaret Pilkington · 09-01-2012, 07:31

And as Garinda has observed the great hulking organisation that is the EU now, is not the organisation that the British people voted into.

A large proportion of the population of this country has never had a say, despite being assured by various parties that we would have a say. I ask you......is that democracy?

jaysay · 09-01-2012, 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toffee Guy

All parties go round in cycles and this is Labour's dip in form. After 13 years in government they ran out of energy and ideas. Unfortunately it will probably take another election defeat for them to become re-energised with fresh ideas to solve the country's problems. Luckily they have a few 'bright young things' coming through the ranks like Chuka Umunna and Rachel Reeves who can take on the mantle of the progressive left.

But becoming the anti-E.U. party would make them unelectable. The UK needs to be at the heart of Europe. On our own we would be unable to compete against the economic blocs of Indo-China and the Americas.

Ran out of ideas, never realised they had any that were affordable, noticed you shied away from Hyndburns bright young thing

jaysay · 09-01-2012, 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones

The belief is that we need to turn the page. Times have changed, dramatically. No one doubts we have a mountain to a climb. Ed is a great leader.

Chip paper makes for ideal chit chat amongst commentators. I don't think it is distracting the Parliamentary Labour Party or that anyone is worried at this stage. Ed's put a lot in behind the scenes. Remarkable person and tough. He doesn't bat an eyelid at the paper stuff. Just carries on with a clear purpose. It's hard because I don't just want to say "oh this is what is being said behind closed doors about ourselves (and the opposition) and this is what we are going to do in years 3 and 4 and 5." That's for Ed to do but he has pretty much laid out in the clearest of terms to Labour MP's how we will approach the next election and how he plans for those years with the Labour Party. There is some evolving still going on. We have the policy reviews.

When you're on the inside knowing how clear and decisive Ed is in what he wants and how he has a clear plan, you can't take the outside media seriously.

Nor the people who actually elected you obviously, now well we're at it why did you deny the people of Hyndburn a referendum

jaysay · 09-01-2012, 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

Graham, you are talking to us as if we are five year olds. condescending and patronising and your posts above do not allay my concerns one little bit.
We may Have MEP's over there, but like the MP's over here in our parliament(who are supposed to represent the will of their electorate) that don't seem to listen to the real concerns of the people they represent.
It is not the MP's who rule europe......it is the faceless Bureaucrats.

Is that any surprise Margaret He's already stated that he knows best about what is good for the people of Hyndburn so why should we be consulted about our part in any European discussions. Although I would never vote for Graham, when he was elected I respected the fact, like I did Greg Pope, that he was our mouth piece in Westminster and would represent our wishes, its sad to say that he has now lost that respect and would think I'm not the only one taking that stance

Margaret Pilkington · 09-01-2012, 10:49

John, they think we are like babies.......put something on a spoon and we'll swallow it.

jaysay · 09-01-2012, 11:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

John, they think we are like babies.......put something on a spoon and we'll swallow it.

Ya well I know I'm getting on a bit, but they ain't spoon feding me either

Margaret Pilkington · 09-01-2012, 12:30

The German and French leaders are having yet another meeting today to decide on the Dog's breakfast that is the Eurozone......how many more meetings will it take before they come up with some decisive action?
How much are all these meetings costing? and more to the point, who is paying the bill?
You can bet our money is in there somewhere.
And while Graham talks about the EU defending the citizens interests in the weak and vulnerable countries(phone charges, food prices, etc)...it appears to me that we get very little out of it while putting a lot into the pot....and don't come with the old acid about jobs and that guff........France and Germany carve up the best tenders to their own liking...ask the people of Derby and they will tell you.

In these days of a harsh economic climate we have to get value for money...the EU quite simply does not offer us value for money.

Margaret Pilkington · 09-01-2012, 12:33

get us out now!

jaysay · 09-01-2012, 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

get us out now!

I noticed that PB said exactly the same thing in his Observer column on Friday

cashman · 09-01-2012, 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

I noticed that PB said exactly the same thing in his Observer column on Friday

Well he would disagree wi a guy that wouldn't entertain him as n M.P.

Plus he will probably be trying to slime his way back as the "God Of Hyndburn" come next locals.

jaysay · 09-01-2012, 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by cashman

Well he would disagree wi a guy that wouldn't entertain him as n M.P.

Plus he will probably be trying to slime his way back as the "God Of Hyndburn" come next locals.

Well at least we won't get all the diatribe in the run up to the locals as we did last year

Margaret Pilkington · 09-01-2012, 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

I noticed that PB said exactly the same thing in his Observer column on Friday

Yes he did John, but then anyone in their right mind can see that the EU is not a help to us, but a hindrance, with its pointless rules and regulations.(which those on the other side of the channel seem to ignore)
The only ones who don't want out have their eye on the main chance......a place on the gravy train.

Gordon Booth · 09-01-2012, 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones

The EU is run by an elected national body. The Council of Ministers. Our representative was elected in Britain, for Britain and sits in the Commons. Countries have the right of veto so it is not possible to be run from Brussels. The common market which everyone agrees provides jobs in order to work one set of rules. Less bureaucrats and less bureaucracy. 1 rule not 27.

It also defends citizens interests where weak countries and I include Britain are unable to. Israel, mobile phone charges, food and drink, large multinationals fear it etc... It's expansion causes me concern in terms of immigration particularly the new accession countries and also on green issues. It fails to deal with trade imbalences outside of the EU and is anti state intervention.

Graham, lets clarify a few of the misrepresentations you make.
First- the Council of Ministers is a multinational body on which we have
only 29 votes out of 345(even Poland gets 27!).
Second- ' The council can only legislate on the basis of proposals submitted to it by the European Commission'. (quote from Consilium). In other words anonymous bureaucrats come up with the new rules, the Commission is then allowed to discuss them and vote on them. It doesn't come up with new rules/laws of its own right! You say it is 'not possible to be run from Brussels' but it obviously IS
Third- countries do not have the right of veto in the above! A qualified majority is all that is needed, sometimes a majority of states(sometimes two thirds, sometimes a simple majority) or a minimum of 255 votes out of a possible 345.
Fourth- 'One set of rules','1 rule not 27'. Are you advocating that this rapidly growing monster should be able to apply the same rule to every country whether they like it or not? Tax,fiscal,employment, retirement etc.etc.etc?

As a democratically elected MP in a democratic parliament how can you dare to advocate our democracy be handed over to a Dictatorship of anonymous bureaucrats based in another country?
They've already replaced the Governments of 2 of the 27, now they've got a taste for it we should be afraid!