Ed Miliband

[gynn]

Well the spotlight has been on Ed Miliband this week, with the Labour Party Conference and his keynote speech which, in the words of his colleagues, gave him a chance to become better known to the wider public.

I watched his speech and found him completely unconvincing. His line that "I'm not Tony Blair, I'm not Gordon Brown, I'm my own man" just didn't have any impact whatsoever.

It showed one thing that I suspect most Labour supporters knew already, and everyone knows now.

They chose the wrong Miliband.

[garinda]

He comes across like a minor character in The Office.

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Seems a bit of a nonentity to me but, to be honest, I doubt there'll ever be a Labour leader who fits in with the views of Accyweb traditional Labour voters. There seems to be a yearning for a proper left wing socialist Labour leader like Michael Foot (the man who couldn't get Labour into power in a thousand years). If just such a leader was elected, it'd be interesting to see just how long it was before the howls of protest emerged on here from traditional Labour voters about the left wing socialist policies that were being implemented - ie, a liberal, inclusive attitude on immigration, an emphasis on rehabilitation rather than punishment for criminals, an embracing of politically correct attitudes (think Harriet Harman) and more. And if you think those aren't left wing Labour attitudes, I suggest you talk to any left wing socialist member of the Labour party. Socialism's about far more than just economic policies!

I've asked it before and I'll ask it again. Could someone explain which Labour leader WOULD suit the views of the "traditional Labour/socialist" types on here - and I'm talking ordinary voters here, not party members.

Because, from reading through their views, they'd want someone who has left wing/socialist views on preserving the NHS, benefits, the welfare state, a fair deal for the ordinary working man etc. Yet, they'd also want someone who has right wing, dare I say it Tory views on immigration, law and order, political correctness etc. Does such an animal exist? I certainly don't think so!

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

I've asked it before and I'll ask it again. Could someone explain which Labour leader WOULD suit the views of the "traditional Labour/socialist" types on here - and I'm talking ordinary voters here, not party members.

Because, from reading through their views, they'd want someone who has left wing/socialist views on preserving the NHS, benefits, the welfare state, a fair deal for the ordinary working man etc. Yet, they'd also want someone who has right wing, dare I say it Tory views on immigration, law and order, political correctness etc. Does such an animal exist? I certainly don't think so!

Think that beast is still being worked at in a test tube in some lab somewhere Wyn

[jaysay]

To be honest I think Mr Ed is Labours answer to Ian Duncan Smith

[g jones]

Originally Posted by gynn

Well the spotlight has been on Ed Miliband this week, with the Labour Party Conference and his keynote speech which, in the words of his colleagues, gave him a chance to become better known to the wider public.

I watched his speech and found him completely unconvincing. His line that "I'm not Tony Blair, I'm not Gordon Brown, I'm my own man" just didn't have any impact whatsoever.

It showed one thing that I suspect most Labour supporters knew already, and everyone knows now.

They chose the wrong Miliband.

Having met Ed and coming from inside (Whips office) most of what is written is the opposite of the truth. Lazy journalism and journalists with a narrative.

Ed is the first politician since Margaret Thatcher to have a steel back as opposed the glass backed politicians in between. "I am not seeking a consensus" was the most important subtext he said.

The Party is moving to the right on many issues. Responsibility is about two things, localism at it's lowest form. I know from speaking to him he wants to tackle Labour's scourge, welfare where it moves toward an insurance scheme, those that pay get the most out - even Maggie wasn't that radical. It is also moving to the left with the state willing to intervene to ensure we have a responsible society.

One leading Tory advisor has already stated that Red Ed has parked his tanks on our lawn (responsibility,localism) and we're still in a deep sleep. Even if we awoke we don't have an answer to his offer. That was spot on analysis of where we are.

In private and public he talks about immigration frequently and what we got right (points, marriage under 21) but where for the last 30 years the country has got it wrong. Rights have come along too easily opposing the Liberal and Liberal-Conservative traditions.

He is ruthless in a polite way. Really ruthless yet such is his stature he has never had to go beyond convincing people. I know it is within him to make the biggest sacrifice's without looking backward.

He is so down to earth and so in touch for a leading politician it is frightening. My conversation with him on Hyndburn lasted 60 seconds. He knew everything I or anyone else was going to say on the easy issues, housing and jobs, and the difficult issues, welfare and immigration.

No other leading politician in the House of Commons has his leadership skills, determination or clarity of purpose. By a country mile I might add. No-one could lead the Labour Party like he has over the last 12 months navigating from the meltdown of Brown/Blair, the remnants within the PLP and wider Labour movement, orchestrate change and have barely a word of criticism laid against him from those on the inside, particularly the New Labourites.

Here is someone who jousted against his brother. Who from a poor position won. Whose charm and powerful assessment of UK PLC will see off Cameron when the Tories realise their mistake, like David Miliband, was to grossly underestimate Ed Miliband.

Commentators willing to seek a fork in the road from the herd have made reference to something different, an offer to Britain that is something I have heard all my life from people. A yearning for responsibility. A reward for effort. That everyone can contribute and those that wish not to do these things, the state intervenes in a tough way.

An example this week. Hyndburn Labour Group rewrote procurement rules to favour responsible companies. Last week John Denham announced that presumption will be in favour of the complainant in trading standards cases and the wider consumer rights putting bad businesses on the back foot. I spoke to him last week about this and how we can protect people work hard.

Of course it will be about the economy and jobs where people are doubting the Tories have got it right already. Responsibility is cut across theme and is high on people's agenda.

None of this would have come about but for Ed Miliband who has a clear view in his own mind. Firstly reform and rebuild the foundations. There is no need to fight the next election next week despite what some might argue.

Ed Miliband is a person 'without any doubt' when it comes to the big picture. He knows what kind of society and economy he wants and he summed it up in another piece of subtext that people missed. I am not waiting for a consensus, "I am [simply] going to do it my way".

And David Miliband. If he would have won he would have won not with one member one vote but because his supporters had three and four votes each and those votes were of a higher value in the MP's and Labour Party sections.

'Banana Man' would have been sucked into this media narrative instead of Ed. He would have been accused of continuity. Of being more New Labour. Of being at the centre of the the Brown years. Of failing to stand up to Brown when he had a chance. David Miliband would have been damaged goods.

The turn the page candidate has caused the media a headache with the pre-scrited attacks so they have had to find other ways to attack him.

The problem for yesterdays's hack is tomorrows hack has seen the light and wants to write what he see's and it isn't the nonsense that Ed Miliband is the wrong person. That just maybe he is writing a new broad consensus for the next 30 years and the Tories deep down are seriously worried.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by g jones

Having met Ed and coming from inside (Whips office) most of what is written is the opposite of the truth. Lazy journalism and journalists with a narrative.

Ed is the first politician since Margaret Thatcher to have a steel back as opposed the glass backed politicians in between. "I am not seeking a consensus" was the most important subtext he said.

The Party is moving to the right on many issues. Responsibility is about two things, localism at it's lowest form. I know from speaking to him he wants to tackle Labour's scourge, welfare where it moves toward an insurance scheme, those that pay get the most out - even Maggie wasn't that radical. It is also moving to the left with the state willing to intervene to ensure we have a responsible society.

One leading Tory advisor has already stated that Red Ed has parked his tanks on our lawn (responsibility,localism) and we're still in a deep sleep. Even if we awoke we don't have an answer to his offer. That was spot on analysis of where we are.

In private and public he talks about immigration frequently and what we got right (points, marriage under 21) but where for the last 30 years the country has got it wrong. Rights have come along too easily opposing the Liberal and Liberal-Conservative traditions.

He is ruthless in a polite way. Really ruthless yet such is his stature he has never had to go beyond convincing people. I know it is within him to make the biggest sacrifice's without looking backward.

He is so down to earth and so in touch for a leading politician it is frightening. My conversation with him on Hyndburn lasted 60 seconds. He knew everything I or anyone else was going to say on the easy issues, housing and jobs, and the difficult issues, welfare and immigration.

No other leading politician in the House of Commons has his leadership skills, determination or clarity of purpose. By a country mile I might add. No-one could lead the Labour Party like he has over the last 12 months navigating from the meltdown of Brown/Blair, the remnants within the PLP and wider Labour movement, orchestrate change and have barely a word of criticism laid against him from those on the inside, particularly the New Labourites.

Here is someone who jousted against his brother. Who from a poor position won. Whose charm and powerful assessment of UK PLC will see off Cameron when the Tories realise their mistake, like David Miliband, was to grossly underestimate Ed Miliband.

Commentators willing to seek a fork in the road from the herd have made reference to something different, an offer to Britain that is something I have heard all my life from people. A yearning for responsibility. A reward for effort. That everyone can contribute and those that wish not to do these things, the state intervenes in a tough way.

An example this week. Hyndburn Labour Group rewrote procurement rules to favour responsible companies. Last week John Denham announced that presumption will be in favour of the complainant in trading standards cases and the wider consumer rights putting bad businesses on the back foot. I spoke to him last week about this and how we can protect people work hard.

Of course it will be about the economy and jobs where people are doubting the Tories have got it right already. Responsibility is cut across theme and is high on people's agenda.

None of this would have come about but for Ed Miliband who has a clear view in his own mind. Firstly reform and rebuild the foundations. There is no need to fight the next election next week despite what some might argue.

Ed Miliband is a person 'without any doubt' when it comes to the big picture. He knows what kind of society and economy he wants and he summed it up in another piece of subtext that people missed. I am not waiting for a consensus, "I am [simply] going to do it my way".

And David Miliband. If he would have won he would have won not with one member one vote but because his supporters had three and four votes each and those votes were of a higher value in the MP's and Labour Party sections.

'Banana Man' would have been sucked into this media narrative instead of Ed. He would have been accused of continuity. Of being more New Labour. Of being at the centre of the the Brown years. Of failing to stand up to Brown when he had a chance. David Miliband would have been damaged goods.

The turn the page candidate has caused the media a headache with the pre-scrited attacks so they have had to find other ways to attack him.

The problem for yesterdays's hack is tomorrows hack has seen the light and wants to write what he see's and it isn't the nonsense that Ed Miliband is the wrong person. That just maybe he is writing a new broad consensus for the next 30 years and the Tories deep down are seriously worried.

Nice try Graham, there are those of us who would say well he would say that wouldn't he. My I ask who you supported in the Leadership race last year

[garinda]

Well I'm afraid none of the wonderful leadership qualities that you see Graham, is perceived by Joe Public.

He has the dynamism of a wet mop.

He's in a position in which he could have obliterated the Liberal Democrats, now we've seen them in the Cabinet for the first time in nearly a century.

He could also have ripped the Tories to pieces, with all the broken election promises we've witnessed, as a result of being part of a coalition government.

Being Leader of the Opposition is an ideal platform to show strong leadership qualities. This, so far, he's failed to do.

He comes across as the weak and sickly love child of Blair and Brown.

Unless he radically changes how the public see him, he'll never be Prime Minister of this country.

He's obviously impressed you.

Now's the time to impress the country.

'Cus he ain't so far.

[gynn]

If what Graham says about him is true, then Ed Miliband is in danger of joining that elite group of leaders highly respected in the Westminster village, but whose qualities are lost on the wider, voting public. A group that included people like Michael Foot and, as jaysay says, Ian Duncan Smith.

[Wynonie Harris]

Maybe you should be his Google Page Ranking man, Graham; you certainly do a good selling job on him!

He sounds great, but then again so did Blair...before he got in. I'm not suggesting that Ed (who seems a fairly decent sort) is anything like the aforementioned creep, but these days, people are cynical...very cynical...and he's got a hell of a mountain to climb to overcome that.

[mobertol]

Originally Posted by gynn

His line that "I'm not Tony Blair, I'm not Gordon Brown, I'm my own man"

Hope he sacked the genius that came up with that one - totally wimpish thing to say, immediately opening himself to suspicion that he secretly believes the opposite.
I'm sure he's a nice guy on a personal level and is well-informed and certainly is not stupid......but, for me he doesn't have the charisma which a leader needs. I get the feeling he isn't convinced himself that he's a real leader - just found himself in the position un-expectedly. It follows that if he can't convince his own party members and the electorate that are sympathetic to the Labour cause, that he's the man for the job, how is he going to convince the un-decided...
I hope Graham that you're right when you say:
"Ed Miliband is a person 'without any doubt' when it comes to the big picture. He knows what kind of society and economy he wants and he summed it up in another piece of subtext that people missed. I am not waiting for a consensus, "I am [simply] going to do it my way". "
and that it doesn't end up like the lyrics of a famous song...

And now, the end is near,
And so I face the final curtain.
My friends, I'll say it clear;
I'll state my case of which I'm certain.

I've lived a life that's full -
I've travelled each and every highway.
And more, much more than this,
I did it my way.

Regrets? I've had a few,
But then again, too few to mention.
I did what I had to do
And saw it through without exemption.

I planned each charted course -
Each careful step along the byway,
And more, much more than this,
I did it my way.

Yes, there were times, I'm sure you knew,
When I bit off more than I could chew,
But through it all, when there was doubt, (without any doubt)
I ate it up and spit it out.
I faced it all and I stood tall
And did it my way.

I've loved, I've laughed and cried,
I've had my fill - my share of losing.
But now, as tears subside,
I find it all so amusing.

To think I did all that,
And may I say, not in a shy way -
Oh no. Oh no, not me.
I did it my way.

For what is a man? What has he got?
If not himself - Then he has naught.
To say the things he truly feels
And not the words of one who kneels.
The record shows I took the blows
And did it my way.

Sorry but i just don't see him ever being PM.

[Bernard Dawson]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Maybe you should be his Google Page Ranking man, Graham; you certainly do a good selling job on him!

He sounds great, but then again so did Blair...before he got in. I'm not suggesting that Ed (who seems a fairly decent sort) is anything like the aforementioned creep, but these days, people are cynical...very cynical...and he's got a hell of a mountain to climb to overcome that.

You say that but the polls are showing a Labour lead, and have been for quite while. Not a massive lead, but nevertheless a lead. And as a party we haven't got out of first gear yet.

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson

You say that but the polls are showing a Labour lead, and have been for quite while. Not a massive lead, but nevertheless a lead. And as a party we haven't got out of first gear yet.

Yes, they are in the lead, but considering the unpopularity of the government spending cuts, and the fact that the voters haven't warmed to either Cameron or Clegg, you'd expect that league to be much, much bigger at this stage. As for getting out of first gear...an accurate prediction?...or just wishful thinking?

[Bernard Dawson]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Yes, they are in the lead, but considering the unpopularity of the government spending cuts, and the fact that the voters haven't warmed to either Cameron or Clegg, you'd expect that league to be much, much bigger at this stage. As for getting out of first gear...an accurate prediction?...or just wishful thinking?

I think that's probably right.The poll lead at this stage is more down to the unpopularity of the Government. The poll lead probably should be greater, but that will come.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Bernard Dawson

I think that's probably right.The poll lead at this stage is more down to the unpopularity of the Government. The poll lead probably should be greater, but that will come.

Again wishful think Bernard old chum, Labour have been rumbled, they are absolutely useless at handling the economy, this live today pay tomorrow policy has put this country in the mire, lets just hope that the people realise that the hard measures now being undertaken are a result of Labour utter idiotic spending over 13 years