education fees

[Mancie]

It's not the Goverment but the universities that are now calling for cash..seems the fox hunting brigade are getting ragged up because of the influx of common oiks..they don't think they should pay for their education but the rest of us should do!
BBC NEWS | Education | Universities push for higher fees

[SPUGGIE J]

Originally Posted by Mancie

It's not the Goverment but the universities that are now calling for cash..seems the fox hunting brigade are getting ragged up because of the influx of common oiks..they don't think they should pay for their education but the rest of us should do!
BBC NEWS | Education | Universities push for higher fees

Eliteism is on its way back if the uni's get their own way. All these hoity toity bods are hoping that it does as the credit crunch is biting them very hard. On another note though a certain uni thinks 3 A level passes at A will not be enough to get in and would favour low and behold public schools that the hoity toity brigade attend.

[andrewb]

Well I wouldn't say the government are not in favour. We all know it's Labour who abolished free education at University.

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by andrewb

Well I wouldn't say the government are not in favour. We all know it's Labour who abolished free education at University.

And to right..the time ended when the wealthy could buy education and keep the less well off in thier place... this is the test..no more will the ones that proclaim to have money will be able con a way into uni.. the time has come.. the fox hunting brigade will soon be destroyed!

[entwisi]

from my experience of Uni there was a vast majority of 'normal' hard working people there than the people you seem to be suggesting inhabit these places. Perhaps you should actually look into things before passing uninformed comments.

as Andrew also said, it was Labour that has abolished free education making it harder for 'normal' working class people to go(unless you go to Scotland, once again England is the poor relation).

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by entwisi

from my experience of Uni there was a vast majority of 'normal' hard working people there than the people you seem to be suggesting inhabit these places. Perhaps you should actually look into things before passing uninformed comments.

as Andrew also said, it was Labour that has abolished free education making it harder for 'normal' working class people to go(unless you go to Scotland, once again England is the poor relation).

Get real Entwisi...we all know that the well off bods were getting very good education for free.. the laws brought in were designed to make the people that can afford to pay should pay.. but then you and your Tory mates don't like to be shoved off yer horses... let battle begin

[Neil]

I did not go to University. I did A levels but did not do very very well in them so managed to get on a very good old school type apprenticeship.

Several people I went to school with did go to University and when I look around friends reunited etc I find many are in good job all over the world. I also know that many did not find jobs suited to their level of education after completing degrees.

We here mentioned on here a lot that immigrant workers are needed to fill certain jobs that's Brits don't want to do.

I can't help wondering if this is because we push more people into doing degrees than we have jobs for degree educated people. What happens is that you need to have a better degree to get the few jobs that are out there. You then end up with the rest of the people with degrees working in jobs where they are over qualified. Some employees wont touch these people as they see them as only wanting the job as a stand in until they find something better for them.

We have a shortage of young skilled people in this country. By skilled I mean proper skills like electrical, mechanical, plumbers, joiner etc. That is why we have so many immigrants taking these jobs.

We need to stop pushing people into obtaining average/poor degrees and instead encourage companies to take on proper apprentices. All the companies I have worked for used to have apprentice engineers, none of them do now. We are not training people to take over when the current workforce retire. I found it very hard to employ electrical breakdown/maintenance engineers that were any good last time I was doing interviewing.

What I see happening is that people appear to have moved up the rung leaving no one at the bottom of the ladder. This in effect means that many people are working higher than their abilities would have allowed them a few years ago. This has a bad effect on companies. I work as an engineers on maintenance/breakdown/improvement of production machinery so I am speaking from my background point of view. I have worked with people who were not good enough for the job they were doing, both from an ability and attitude aspect. These people end up being carried by their colleagues which is good for no one.

Education and careers advice should be targeted and focussed on the individual, not just you will go to Uni. My secondary school, Clitheroe Royal Grammar School expected everyone to go on to Uni, I could see then that was wrong and did not suit everyone. It did not suit me and I did not do it, I had school friends who went down the Uni road and IMHO wasted there time.

Basically the way I see it is we need to educate people to the correct level but more importantly the correct education for what is right for them at that time in their life. I believe educational requirements change as you go through life. I could probably get a job higher up the tree if I did a degree or something now - as it is I don't want to. I am currently happy at the level I am at, I have been lower and I have also been higher. I have never stopped learning all my life for both my work and personal enjoyment.

University is not the be all and end all of education and people should stop seeing it as that.


Oops that twoddle ended up being longer than I expected, sorry for those that fell asleep reading it.

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by Mancie

And to right..the time ended when the wealthy could buy education and keep the less well off in thier place... this is the test..no more will the ones that proclaim to have money will be able con a way into uni.. the time has come.. the fox hunting brigade will soon be destroyed!

Erm, its Labour who introduced fees causing working class families to be burdened with thousands of pounds of debt.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Neil

I did not go to University. I did A levels but did not do very very well in them so managed to get on a very good old school type apprenticeship.

Several people I went to school with did go to University and when I look around friends reunited etc I find many are in good job all over the world. I also know that many did not find jobs suited to their level of education after completing degrees.

We here mentioned on here a lot that immigrant workers are needed to fill certain jobs that's Brits don't want to do.

I can't help wondering if this is because we push more people into doing degrees than we have jobs for degree educated people. What happens is that you need to have a better degree to get the few jobs that are out there. You then end up with the rest of the people with degrees working in jobs where they are over qualified. Some employees wont touch these people as they see them as only wanting the job as a stand in until they find something better for them.

We have a shortage of young skilled people in this country. By skilled I mean proper skills like electrical, mechanical, plumbers, joiner etc. That is why we have so many immigrants taking these jobs.

We need to stop pushing people into obtaining average/poor degrees and instead encourage companies to take on proper apprentices. All the companies I have worked for used to have apprentice engineers, none of them do now. We are not training people to take over when the current workforce retire. I found it very hard to employ electrical breakdown/maintenance engineers that were any good last time I was doing interviewing.

What I see happening is that people appear to have moved up the rung leaving no one at the bottom of the ladder. This in effect means that many people are working higher than their abilities would have allowed them a few years ago. This has a bad effect on companies. I work as an engineers on maintenance/breakdown/improvement of production machinery so I am speaking from my background point of view. I have worked with people who were not good enough for the job they were doing, both from an ability and attitude aspect. These people end up being carried by their colleagues which is good for no one.

Education and careers advice should be targeted and focussed on the individual, not just you will go to Uni. My secondary school, Clitheroe Royal Grammar School expected everyone to go on to Uni, I could see then that was wrong and did not suit everyone. It did not suit me and I did not do it, I had school friends who went down the Uni road and IMHO wasted there time.

Basically the way I see it is we need to educate people to the correct level but more importantly the correct education for what is right for them at that time in their life. I believe educational requirements change as you go through life. I could probably get a job higher up the tree if I did a degree or something now - as it is I don't want to. I am currently happy at the level I am at, I have been lower and I have also been higher. I have never stopped learning all my life for both my work and personal enjoyment.

University is not the be all and end all of education and people should stop seeing it as that.


Oops that twoddle ended up being longer than I expected, sorry for those that fell asleep reading it.

Well Neil I don't usually read posts that long, as I've said before I loose the will to live after the first 3 lines, but I did read this post, and what you say is spot on, when you get people going to Uni to take a degree on David Beckham its time to draw the line, karma on its way for this post Neil, when it lets me

[TJH]

Some jobs do require a degree. These include jobs in the NHS and Industry. I went to QEGS and then onto University, my friend went to Todmoreden High School & then onto University. Neither of us come from 'well off families' but we both knew a good degree would mean a better future. Degrees of anykind are not there for just the rich, if you have the drive and its what you want, then most people can get a proper degree. My this i mean somthing like an LLB or MEng.

Student loans are repaid based on what you earn and to be honest, there very reasonable. I think i repay £25.00 a month.

I found in my time at university there were very few of the 'fox hunting brigade' there, who ever these people may be lol

So often people resent the rich, instead of just working away and getting to a position where they can afford not to care what people think or have the confidence not to resent other peoples success and the advantages an education can have.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Excellent post Neil......I would give you some Karma, but it won't allow me to....I have to spread it around.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by TJH

Degrees of any kind are not there for just the rich, if you have the drive and its what you want, then most people can get a proper degree. My this i mean something like an LLB or MEng.

I agree, unfortunately those without the drive and determination get pushed to Uni as well when they would be better off following a different path. I think maturity has a lot to do with it as well.

[Gayle]

I think you're right Neil.

I think the only flaw in the thinking is aspiration. Don't we all want the best for our children and don't we all want them to achieve as much as they are capable of. If we have a bright child then naturally, we want them to have as many career options open to them as possible and further education is one way to open doors later on.

I don't have a degree and I've done just fine out of it (I went to art college to do an HND).

I also agree with the point about maturity. Some people are capable of degrees but really not suited to the university lifestyle. That's why it's important for places like Acc and Rossendale College to offer vocational degrees so that people can still get the education but stay local if it suits.

[harwood red]

Great long winded post Neil. I have two sons, one who is at clitheroe grammar 6th form and aiming for uni and that is why he went to that 6th form and my other son is due to do his GCSE's this year but is having interviews over the coming weeks for an electrical apprenticeship

[cmonstanley]

i think its free up here