Euthanasia. - Page 4

Doug · 07-10-2005, 00:57

Choices……..That I respect.

Patronising? I was speaking in the broader sense that all life is important and precious, not specifically yours but everyone’s. However, I would consider it selfish to expect someone else to help one take a life because an individual didn’t want to continue. The Choice and right for an individual to take there’s own life is there’s and there’s alone. Thank you for your kind comments, I have missed people, but I won’t be staying to long.

simon · 07-10-2005, 08:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

If my quality of life becomes so unbearable, and dependent on others to perform even the most mundane of tasks, I'm out of here, and if I don't have the ability I demand the right to seek assistance without the threat of prosecution hanging over that person.

Gary my friend, Can I offer the needed assistance

Better pm me so I dont get caught.........I am free after the footy tonight

Let me know

garinda · 07-10-2005, 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon

Gary my friend, Can I offer the needed assistance

Better pm me so I dont get caught.........I am free after the footy tonight

Let me know

That's you all over, give, give, give.

garinda · 07-10-2005, 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug

Choices……..That I respect.

Patronising? I was speaking in the broader sense that all life is important and precious, not specifically yours but everyone’s. However, I would consider it selfish to expect someone else to help one take a life because an individual didn’t want to continue. The Choice and right for an individual to take there’s own life is there’s and there’s alone. Thank you for your kind comments, I have missed people, but I won’t be staying to long.

I'm sorry you seem to have taken offence at me calling you patronising and won't be staying long, that's your choice. However you made it it personal when you said my life would still be meaningful and important to you if I couldn't perform the most basic of tasks. True babies can't wipe their own bums, but the difference is they will be able to be taught how to do so as they develop. I will not be sitting in a wheel chair unable to speak and perform simple tasks by the time I'm fifty, trust me. The quality of my life is more important to me than the length of it, as an atheist I'm not confused on the issue that I might be playing God.

Doug · 07-10-2005, 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

I'm sorry you seem to have taken offence at me calling you patronising and won't be staying long, that's your choice. However you made it it personal when you said my life would still be meaningful and important to you if I couldn't perform the most basic of tasks. True babies can't wipe their own bums, but the difference is they will be able to be taught how to do so as they develop. I will not be sitting in a wheel chair unable to speak and perform simple tasks by the time I'm fifty, trust me. The quality of my life is more important to me than the length of it, as an atheist I'm not confused on the issue that I might be playing God.

My use of terminology was unfortunate, I believe all life is a gift therefore even your life is meaningful and important although I was making the statement in broader terms and was not making a personal statement, but believe what you will.

Offended? Not in the least and there’s no connection whatsoever between that statement and me not staying. I was thanking you for your expression of kindness in respect of my return to posting on the site. However, I was also making the statement that I won’t be staying long on the site long has I have many other things to do.

I find it sad that you are an atheist, but like you say that’s your choice and I respect that. I have quite pagan views myself but I do closely relate my beliefs to spiritualism in that we have seen the life we are to live on earth before we are born and choose to continue with it irrespective of how it ends. However, free will will always play its part in that outcome. I also believe in the survival of the spirit after death. Keep that in mind and don’t be too shocked when you wake up on the other side.

To under line the point I was trying to make is that yes, it is your choice to end your life early if that’s what you want. What you don’t have is the right to expect someone else to help you do it, are worst still in my view, expect them to carry the burden of the ultimate responsibility for ending you life.

Doug · 07-10-2005, 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon

Gary my friend, Can I offer the needed assistance

Better pm me so I dont get caught.........I am free after the footy tonight

Let me know

What time does the match end Simon.

garinda · 07-10-2005, 11:10

It's not just me, other people have also posted in this thread that they would expect people they love to help them carry out their wishes, rather than live in a vegative state.

Sadly I can't say to you that I will be there after your death to say I told you so.

Doug · 07-10-2005, 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

It's not just me, other people have also posted in this thread that they would expect people they love to help them carry out their wishes, rather than live in a vegative state.

I also respect their views and wishes; however, I struggle with the fact that people expect someone else to do it for them once they have past the Rubicon so to speak. I don’t have a problem with them ending their lives, It’s the fact that people expect others to end it for them rather than acting as their own agent and doing themselves in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Sadly I can't say to you that I will be there after your death to say I told you so.

The spirit world is a big place Gary, please don’t wait……………….

Neil · 07-10-2005, 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Sadly I can't say to you that I will be there after your death to say I told you so.

Anything is possible rindy. How many Ackers have you got?

garinda · 07-10-2005, 11:57

Well I have no problem with the morality of it all. My family have all ready discussed it, and rather than see someone I love live in agony, I will give them the help to carry out their wishes.

Intrestingly it's always thought that Goerge V was given an assisted suicide.

Romps · 07-10-2005, 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Staveros

You cannot 'play God' with an issue as precious as the human life.

You simply cannot go around making ad hoc decisions on something as precious as the human life, its a non starter for me.

Whilst I am torn, like most of you on this subject on the side of suffering. I tend to agree more with Staveros. Although Staveros, Doctors play God everyday in many guises.

You could argue that, as well as ending ones suffering, keeping people alive is also Playing God.
They may have taken the Hiprocratic Oath to swear to 'preserve life' but thats a legal stance rather than a moral one.

garinda · 07-10-2005, 17:32

Well since I'm now to afraid to post in case people can't stand free debate, and think that argument is a personal attack, and pm the mods to close threads, I think I'll butt out of posting for a while.

SPUGGIE J · 07-10-2005, 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Well since I'm now to afraid to post in case people can't stand free debate, and think that argument is a personal attack, and pm the mods to close threads, I think I'll butt out of posting for a while.

Dont do that G because then that shows they have won and silenced you. They should stop posting if they dont like honest replies and a fair arguement what you say is important.

lettie · 07-10-2005, 18:12

Euthanasia is always an emotive issue, which has been discussed, not only by the medical and nursing professions, but also by the legal profession and government departments. Many of these debates took place in the late 80's when I was RGN training.

The general consensus was that it would be impossible to legislate, families may want to bump off elderly relatives for money or convenience and it would add to the stress of a terminally ill person coming into hospital, for fear that they may be euthanised against their wishes when their disease became end stage. There were many mixed opinions at the time, pretty much the same as this site.

My own opinion is that if it could be legalised, I would support it. Not only have I held many a dying person's hand and comforted relatives, but my Nan went through a painful death which lasted a few days. I do not consider Simon to be at all selfish for wanting to hang on to his father, I would have given anything to have a bit of extra quality time with my Nan, but it was never going to be that way, and I hated to see her suffer....

We have to remember that when a terminally ill person makes a decision to have their life ended, the decision is borne of desperation and pain. To make that decision, the person knows that they have no hope and no quality.

Consider this......... When we lose a relative or friend (as so many of us have done). We would like to have extra time with them, we miss them like mad and we go through a process of grief which can last a lifetime, but we only lose one person. A dying person loses everyone they ever knew, all of their family and friends, neighbours, pets, posessions..... In other words they lose everything, all in one go........

When you make a decision to lose everyone you've ever loved, that decision is not made lightly.......... Should we not be supportive of that?????

Gayle · 07-10-2005, 18:42

Well said Lettie. You summed it up perfectly. I too lost my Nanna a short while ago and the last few days were awful - for her and for the family.

The main problem that I see with this is that when a person gets to the stage where they would probably want to go, they are also probably too ill to get that message across. At that point it becomes someone elses decision and that someone would effectively have to end the sick persons life.