Everybody's Out of Step.......

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Whatever the rights and wrongs of Cameron's actions, the fact is that our position in the EU has fundamentally changed forever. If we're in a minority of one, then what's the point of being in at all, handing over obscene amounts of money to an organisation which we have no say over? I reckon we should pull out, but, unlike Graham Jones, Bernard Dawson, Claytonender et al, I don't want to impose my will on the British people. I'm quite happy to have a referendum and abide by the outcome. Bring it on!

Exactly,whats just happened is the best possible reason to have one. imho

[Eric]

Heard today on CBC radio, that some leading economists in Iceland are seriously suggesting that Iceland adopt a new currency: the Canadian Dollar They argue that the loonie would fit Iceland because both countries have resource based economies ... and it is backed by a political and ecomomic stability they don't see in Europe.

[Margaret Pilkington]

I think what has happened in Brussels weakens the case for not having a referendum now.........and I think there are some heavyweight guys in the tory party who are putting their weight behind the cries that a referendum should be called.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I think what has happened in Brussels weakens the case for not having a referendum now.........and I think there are some heavyweight guys in the tory party who are putting their weight behind the cries that a referendum should be called.

I quite agree n whilst i would love a referendum, i do think one would give em a get outa jail free card................ when europe goes arse up,they can then blame the british public.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I think what has happened in Brussels weakens the case for not having a referendum now.........and I think there are some heavyweight guys in the tory party who are putting their weight behind the cries that a referendum should be called.

I've just been reading about the "eurosceptics" ... maybe the referendum is getting closer; perhaps it's on the way to becoming an inevitability. The referendum vote will be a hard fought one ... thing is, I can see the Labour party doing the wrong thing, just in order to score points against the tories

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Eric

I've just been reading about the "eurosceptics" ... maybe the referendum is getting closer; perhaps it's on the way to becoming an inevitability. The referendum vote will be a hard fought one ... thing is, I can see the Labour party doing the wrong thing, just in order to score points against the tories

Labour have already done the wrong thing in my view Eric.

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by Eric

I've just been reading about the "eurosceptics" ... maybe the referendum is getting closer; perhaps it's on the way to becoming an inevitability. The referendum vote will be a hard fought one ... thing is, I can see the Labour party doing the wrong thing, just in order to score points against the tories

If there is any referendum on complete exit from the EU then it's a safe bet that the Tories will campaign for a no vote..labour and he lib-dems will do the same ..what do mean when you say Labour will do the wrong thing?

[Mancie]

The reality of what happend at this summit is that Cameron had no choice other than pull out of any treaty change in the EU..he was between the rock and a hard place..the hard place being some of his right wing backbence and the rock being the promise of a referendum on any treaty change.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by cashman

I quite agree n whilst i would love a referendum, i do think one would give em a get outa jail free card................ when europe goes arse up,they can then blame the british public.

Anyone with any sense at all could see that this has been a train crash of a thing.....with no decisive leaders in the United States of Europe....no one prepared to grasp the nettle, all of them looking out for their own interests above the need for someone to step in and save something that they believe to be sacrosanct.

It has nothing to do with the British public....every time they have asked for a bigger hand out haven't we been there with an open purse.

It has to do with the vanity and pride of the two big players...the ones who would take the sovereignty of all the other nations and throw it in the bin.....France(Sarkozy - ain't fit to be a teacosy) and Germany(with that dumpling Angela Merkel).

Something like 3 months ago they, and we were told that there was just a six week time frame to save Europe from crashing.......and here we are twelve weeks down the line....what are they doing? Talking.....talking when they should be acting.
They say that Talk is cheap.......I think that pretty soon they are going to realise that it isn't cheap at all.

I don't think that there is one politician in Europe who knows how this mess can be sorted.

[Margaret Pilkington]

The Eu has to take a large part of the blame too....in 14 years that I know of they haven't had a budget audited and ratified....if this was a business it would have gone belly up years ago.
There are two major problems with the EU.......1) it is corrupt - spends member countries money like water.
2) it is too big to control adequately - too much complex legislation....but having said that its' legisaltion isn't followed with the same conscientiousness by all member states.

[gynn]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

The Eu has to take a large part of the blame too....in 14 years that I know of they haven't had a budget audited and ratified....if this was a business it would have gone belly up years ago.
There are two major problems with the EU.......1) it is corrupt - spends member countries money like water.
2) it is too big to control adequately - too much complex legislation....but having said that its' legisaltion isn't followed with the same conscientiousness by all member states.

Whilst I applaud David Cameron's determination and refusal to bow to pressure from bully boy Sarkosy and Commandant Merkel, the one thing I now worry about is these monthly meetings that will be held of the 26 countries that have signed up to the agreement.

They will be taking important financial decisions affecting the UK - and the UK will not be there.

A bit like going to the shops and leaving yourself logged into Facebook. Who knows who will frape you while you're out!

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Mancie

The reality of what happend at this summit is that Cameron had no choice other than pull out of any treaty change in the EU..he was between the rock and a hard place..the hard place being some of his right wing backbence and the rock being the promise of a referendum on any treaty change.

Sums it up well, none of em want a referendum,including Labour.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Mancie

If there is any referendum on complete exit from the EU then it's a safe bet that the Tories will campaign for a no vote..labour and he lib-dems will do the same ..what do mean when you say Labour will do the wrong thing?

Maybe, for several reasons, expected better, or at least different from Labour.

[Boeing Guy]

I really doubt Labour would have done anything, they had 12 years and seemed to agree on anything the EU proposed. So now we would be tied into them financially just waiting to bail out Franc or Germany. As I said Norway does very well without being in the EU as does Switzerland

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Eric

Maybe, for several reasons, expected better, or at least different from Labour.

Why, its another station on the gravy train after they leave westminster, after all the Kinnocks did quite well in retirement didn't they