Expenses, expenses...

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by claytonender

Andrew over the last few weeks you appear to have set out to discredit by whatever means (and some of your means have been very underhand) Graham Jones. I don't have any problem with you being a Ultra Right Wing Tory, but to stoop tot the level you have done recently is completely unacceptable in my book.

I know you will say that this post is because I am a member of the Labour Party, but if I thought Graham had done anything underhand or wrong I would be the first to let him know. Despite Graham explaining the problems he encountered last year - and he is to be commended on how he looked after his Grandmother, (whilst holding down a Full Time job and doing all his work as a ward councillor and running for re-election to Hyndburn Council). Do you think you could do that? Frankly I don't think you could - maybe if when you are no longer a student (paid from from my taxes) and you enter the real world, you might appreciate just how hard working and honest, people like Graham Jones are.

Rant now over with.

No doubt Graham is a hard working councillor for his ward. I don't think he could run the council though as his politics of hatred that he portrays on this website, would get in the way. I don't have a problem with you mistakenly thinking I'm an ultra right wing Tory. Why are you not condemning Graham for trying to discredit me? He posted about a member of the public using the freedom of information act, and used vile name calling, slurs, and accused me of conspiring with somebody I had had no communication with over the issue. He even went further and involved his personal family issues, as a way of calling me a nasty person who lives and breathes gutter politics, despite the fact that the reason I requested the information was nothing to do with his personal situation. By all means he can explain his expenses legitimately using it, but to attempt to attack a member of the public for it is wrong.

It's very easy to make this more than it is, it's very easy to pretend that there is some big Conservative conspiracy to ruin Grahams name, but it's simply wrong. I'll always just post the truth, Graham could have come to me and asked if I had requested the information, but he decided to go ahead anyway and try to drag my name through mud without understanding any of the facts fully. He hates Conservatives so much that he can't see past it to think logically.

I like AccringtonWeb, it's a nice place, I like the community, I like discussing politics, but when councillors come on and accuse members of the public, we shouldn't get shot down for defending ourselves.

[claytonender]

Andrew -I know you have explained that you requested the information for 2007-2008 as it was the last year that information was available for - however if you were doing a piece of research, surely you would need previous years to compare the information too. As just the figures for the one year would not really prove anything - it would not show whether the expenses had increased or decreased, if one person appeared to be claiming more (or less) than previously, which are surely very important in properly conducted research. Before you try to negate my assertions - I was once a student - so I do know about research - but maybe students of history are taught to be more methodical in their research methods than students of politics.

As for politics of hatred - you need to look no further than the present controlling group on hyndburn council - who over the last few weeks have gone out of their way in public meetings (the last planning meeting being one of them) to verbally abuse and discredit Graham. In fact the outburst at the last planning meeting was even more ironic, because the chief instigator of the abuse actually left the meeting early - very ironic as they had accused Graham of leaving the meeting (between items on the agenda) and showing disrepect to the meeting. Ok Graham had left the room -but no one tried to find out why - he might have only needed to use the toilet.

[turkishdelight]

Originally Posted by garinda

I don't think I've posted anything that's broke the forum's rules.

(Well besides thread wandering, but as you are perpetuating it, that must be okay...in this instance.)

Nor do I recall posting anything that wasn't already in the public arena.

As I said, I used to put you obsessive shrillness about certain topics down to youthful enthusiasm, after more careful consideration, and by what I've seen for myself recently, that's no longer the case.

Take a close look again i think youve clearly broken the rules

[andrewb]

Originally Posted by claytonender

Andrew -I know you have explained that you requested the information for 2007-2008 as it was the last year that information was available for - however if you were doing a piece of research, surely you would need previous years to compare the information too. As just the figures for the one year would not really prove anything - it would not show whether the expenses had increased or decreased, if one person appeared to be claiming more (or less) than previously, which are surely very important in properly conducted research. Before you try to negate my assertions - I was once a student - so I do know about research - but maybe students of history are taught to be more methodical in their research methods than students of politics.

As for politics of hatred - you need to look no further than the present controlling group on hyndburn council - who over the last few weeks have gone out of their way in public meetings (the last planning meeting being one of them) to verbally abuse and discredit Graham. In fact the outburst at the last planning meeting was even more ironic, because the chief instigator of the abuse actually left the meeting early - very ironic as they had accused Graham of leaving the meeting (between items on the agenda) and showing disrepect to the meeting. Ok Graham had left the room -but no one tried to find out why - he might have only needed to use the toilet.

Claytonender I've already explained that even if I wasn't doing it for university research, I think freedom of information is a perfectly legitimate thing to request, without having a backlash from councillors on a public website. I got a sample of 2007-2008 to see if it would be useful (not that I should have to explain myself), thus far I can't see a place for including the expenses information anyway, it's not as useful as I thought it might be, as the sample is so small because most councillors do not need to claim.

I haven't been at the planning meetings, but if the controlling group have been abusing Graham then that's wrong. There is no reason why Graham should come here and abuse and discredit a member of the public though, it's not justifiable. Perhaps Peter and Graham are as bad as each other, I don't know, what I do know is it's Graham who's then going on to try to discredit me, which is especially surprising if he doesn't like it being done to him at council.

[Mancie]

A Freedom of Information Act that was installed by a Labour administation... and was a good act.. the Tories like to play around!

[onlyme]

Originally Posted by Mancie

A Freedom of Information Act that was installed by a Labour administation... and was a good act.. the Tories like to play around!

Not a good act if you get condemned for using it

[garinda]

Originally Posted by turkishdelight

Take a close look again i think youve clearly broken the rules

Care to give an example?

[garinda]

Originally Posted by claytonender

Andrew -I know you have explained that you requested the information for 2007-2008 as it was the last year that information was available for - however if you were doing a piece of research, surely you would need previous years to compare the information too.

Perhaps if someone like that fair minded and august publication the Daily Telegraph digested all the facts, we'd be more likely to get a a thorough investigation, and a more complete picture concerning all the facts.

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by turkishdelight
Take a close look again i think youve clearly broken the rules

do you mean "The rules" ..or the Tory party rules...like don't suck an orange with a plastic bag on yer head?

[claytonender]

Originally Posted by andrewb

Claytonender I've already explained that even if I wasn't doing it for university research, I think freedom of information is a perfectly legitimate thing to request, without having a backlash from councillors on a public website. I got a sample of 2007-2008 to see if it would be useful (not that I should have to explain myself), thus far I can't see a place for including the expenses information anyway, it's not as useful as I thought it might be, as the sample is so small because most councillors do not need to claim.

I haven't been at the planning meetings, but if the controlling group have been abusing Graham then that's wrong. There is no reason why Graham should come here and abuse and discredit a member of the public though, it's not justifiable. Perhaps Peter and Graham are as bad as each other, I don't know, what I do know is it's Graham who's then going on to try to discredit me, which is especially surprising if he doesn't like it being done to him at council.

No one has said that Graham dislikes it being done to him, as he is very capable of standing his corner, just pointing out that certain high ranking Tory members are abusing Graham in public and then doing exactly what they have accused him of an hour later.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by garinda

Care to give an example?

Still waiting.

Can't think of any myself off the top of my head, besides thread wandering, as I pointed out myself, but since this seems to be officially sanctioned because it's been perpetuated by a moderator, this now seems acceptable, in some cases.

I won't give you a time scale, considering there's an awful lot of my posts to read through, but I look forward to seeing some sort of evidence to back up your claim.

[turkishdelight]

Originally Posted by garinda

Still waiting.

Can't think of any myself off the top of my head, besides thread wandering, as I pointed out myself, but since this seems to be officially sanctioned because it's been perpetuated by a moderator, this now seems acceptable, in some cases.

I won't give you a time scale, considering there's an awful lot of my posts to read through, but I look forward to seeing some sort of evidence to back up your claim.

Garinda the warriorGive me a time scale how conciderate you are really i thought that was beyond you. Read the forum rules the evidence is clear, then you may have some understanding as to why you have broken the rules.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by turkishdelight

Garinda the warriorGive me a time scale how conciderate you are really i thought that was beyond you. Read the forum rules the evidence is clear, then you may have some understanding as to why you have broken the rules.

I know the forum rules very well, and can't think of any I've broken other than thread wandering, as I pointed out, and which we are both doing now, by the way.

You claim to know I've broken the rules, but seem unwilling to give an example. I wonder why? Shouldn't be too difficult to back up your statement.

It isn't against forum rules to come to the conclusion that someone isn't quite the full shilling.

[turkishdelight]

Originally Posted by garinda

I know the forum rules very well, and can't think of any I've broken other than thread wandering, as I pointed out, and which we are both doing now, by the way.

You claim to know I've broken the rules, but seem unwilling to give an example. I wonder why? Shouldn't be too difficult to back up your statement.

It isn't against forum rules to come to the conclusion that someone isn't quite the full shilling.

Just one example in that statement alone.I will spell it out to you. Clearly Rude to a member of he public.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by turkishdelight

Just one example in that statement alone.I will spell it out to you. Clearly Rude to a member of he public.

I'll say no more.